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Driver Safety Device and Vigilance

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XCTurbostar

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Hi all,

On modern units like Desiros and Turbostars.
What specifically is the Vigilance part of the DSD? Is it the sound or the pedal?

If you isolate one can the other still work?

Thanks,
Ross
 
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hexagon789

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The sound is the vigilance part. The pedal is technically the Driver Safety Device. On older locomotives and multiple units typically only the DSD is provided as either a foot pedal or in the case of First Generation DMUs it iseems overlaid into the throttle control which must be held down. I'm not sure when the vigilance system was first introduced but HSTs have has it from new, it is typically overlaid onto the DSD so that every so often, generally 60 seconds, the Vigilance alarm will go off and the driver must lift and then depress the pedal to reset the DVD. On certain forms of traction moving the brake or power handle, sounding the horn or using the AWS acknowledge button will also reset the Vigilance timer.
 

Bromley boy

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Vigilance and DSD both work through the pedal. DSD starts beeping immediately you release the pedal and will dump the brake if you don’t depress it again within 8 secs.

Vigilance starts beeping if you don’t move any controls in 30 secs. Once the beeping starts you have to release and depress the pedal within 8 seconds to avoid the brakes coming on (once it starts beeping the only way to cancel it is the pedal. Moving the controls won’t stop it).

They can be isolated seperately, although at my TOC I understand it’s general practice to also isolate the vigilance if the DSD is isolated.
 

Tomnick

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The DSD can’t be isolated on at least some 2nd generation DMUs (15x). If it stops working, the train can’t be driven from that cab.

The vigilance, where provided, can be isolated separately.
 

XCTurbostar

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So the Vigilance system is the way which the system gives an alarm to the driver if the pedal is being pressed but there has been no movement of the controls?
The DSD pedal is the instrument which allows the human to tell the machine that they're still alive and in control.

I take it that if the Vigilance is isolated but the DSD isnt, then the system just puts the emergency brake on when the pedal isn't pressed? So what happens if the DSD is isolated but not the Vigilance? I know its not normal practice but is that possible?
 
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Bromley boy

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So the Vigilance system is the way which the system gives an alarm to the driver if the pedal is being pressed but there has been no movement of the controls?
The DSD pedal is the instrument which allows the human to tell the machine that they're still alive and in control.

I take it that if the Vigilance is isolated but the DSD isnt, then the system just puts the emergency brake on when the pedal isn't pressed? So what happens if the DSD is isolated but not the Vigilance? I know its not normal practice but is that possible?

If the DSD wasn’t isolated by vigilance was, it would just be like normal driving (albeit without having to cancel vigilance*, with some rule book bits and pieces around degraded working, and certainly not in passenger service).

If DSD was isolated the pedal wouldn’t have any function and (I seem to recall from my traction course) this would stop you resetting the vigilance once triggered. For this reason we would isolate either both systems or only vigilance, but we would never isolate only the DSD.

*very rare to cancel the vigilance in metro driving as you’re constantly braking and accelerating. Different for mainline of course.

EDIT: and yes you’re right, vigilance can start beeping at you when the pedal is depressed. It is then necessary to release and depress the DSD pedal in order to cancel it. On the stock I sign moving the controls won’t cancel the vigilance once the beeping has started, although this seems to be stock dependent.
 
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380101

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The DSD can’t be isolated on at least some 2nd generation DMUs (15x). If it stops working, the train can’t be driven from that cab.

The vigilance, where provided, can be isolated separately.

The DSD certainly can be isolated on class 156 units - the switch is on the cab wall. Once isolated you have to keep the pedal pressed down at all times to prevent the brakes coming on immediately.
 

380101

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Are you sure?

The 156's I sign certainly dont have a dsd isolation switch.

The Scotrail ones have an isolation switch on the cab wall behind the driving seat. I assume it was a later addition as the switches are not all in the same location on the wall.
 

Eccles1983

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Well they definately dont have them on Northern units.

*had to check traction manual as was unsure if I was missing something.
 

380101

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Well they definately dont have them on Northern units.

*had to check traction manual as was unsure if I was missing something.

We've got quite few additions to our 156 fleet over the Northern ones. Guard panels at intermediate doors, Driver Advisory System (DAS) in the cab.
 

driver9000

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Isolating the DSD (if possible) should automatically isolate the Vigilance device.
 

dk1

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How did 156 units escape having vigilance fitted? Always wondered. They seem such an anomaly.
 

craigybagel

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If the DSD wasn’t isolated by vigilance was, it would just be like normal driving (albeit without having to cancel vigilance*, with some rule book bits and pieces around degraded working, and certainly not in passenger service).

My understanding was, you can carry on in passenger service - as long as you have a 2nd person traveling in the cab who can stop the train if the driver is incapacitated. It is one of only 2 scenarios listed in the rule book where a guard may legitimately travel in the front cab.
 

rebmcr

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My understanding was, you can carry on in passenger service - as long as you have a 2nd person traveling in the cab who can stop the train if the driver is incapacitated. It is one of only 2 scenarios listed in the rule book where a guard may legitimately travel in the front cab.

Is the other "it's their birthday"? :D
 

Quickthorn

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Vigilance and DSD both work through the pedal. DSD starts beeping immediately you release the pedal and will dump the brake if you don’t depress it again within 8 secs.

Vigilance starts beeping if you don’t move any controls in 30 secs. Once the beeping starts you have to release and depress the pedal within 8 seconds to avoid the brakes coming on (once it starts beeping the only way to cancel it is the pedal. Moving the controls won’t stop it).

They can be isolated seperately, although at my TOC I understand it’s general practice to also isolate the vigilance if the DSD is isolated.

8 seconds...

We've got 150/2s that trip after 1.6 seconds. Some of us have reported that as a defect, but the response to that is that it's "within spec - no action taken".

When you consider that a reasonable blast of the horn should last at least 1 second, and drowns out the vigilance for that duration, you can guess what can - and does - happen.
 

craigybagel

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I can't say I have heard of any occasions when a guard has helped examine a line in a tunnel on their birthday, but I am sure it has happened...

I've had to do it 4 times in the 4 years I've been a guard - so I guess if I'm a guard for another 361 years it's statistically guaranteed to happen right?
 

driver9000

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8 seconds...

We've got 150/2s that trip after 1.6 seconds. Some of us have reported that as a defect, but the response to that is that it's "within spec - no action taken".

When you consider that a reasonable blast of the horn should last at least 1 second, and drowns out the vigilance for that duration, you can guess what can - and does - happen.

Driving a 150/2 with the window open is enough to drown out the Vigilance alarm on some units!
 
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