If this is the case I'm surprised that a sample assessment of their condition was not done by the ROSCO, TOC and the contracted referber before publicising their reintroduction into service.
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Class 442s - Now at the end of the road and to be withdrawn permanently
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I did think similarly but apparently this has come from a union H&S rep... we shall see. It could be the old rumour mill in full spin.
Monty
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I don't hold much stock in that personally, corrosion has been an on going issue with mk3 based vehicles for sometime now and most LHCS & HST trailers have had major work done to them over the last decade or so. It's not a deal breaker, so with little other rolling stock to fall back on I don't see why the TOC/ROSCO wouldn't pay for repairs if a problem had been found.
swt_passenger
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Which routes would you be taking 'spare' 444s from then? Wouldn't they all be already needed for Weymouth, Poole, Portsmouth via Basingstoke etc, not to mention other Portsmouth direct services not operated by 442s?
But as Monty implies, it seems a bit of an unlikely rumour, especially given a contract is in place.
Bletchleyite
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Would 444s be needed for the new Weymouth to wherever-it-was-that-isn't-London stopping services? Would 450s not be more suited there?
swt_passenger
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The 1 tph Weymouth fast service is now to be ten car all day as far as Bournemouth, but the 1 tph Waterloo to Poole fast service (which is the second Weymouth fast but cut short) is likely to be 444 operated as well. The 'new' Weymouth to Portsmouth replaces the Poole to Southampton leg of the Poole to Waterloo that was mainly 450 operated already. There are only 45 units (maybe 41 in service?), taking 16 of them to replace 442s just doesn't add up.
The Poole-Waterloo stopper is mainly 444s AFAIK.
43096
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And? How does being a union H&S rep make him more qualified to comment authoritatively on the structural integrity of Mark 3 rolling stock. The use of the word “union” suggests “**** stirrer” to me - especially given the state of the relationship between RMT and SWR.
Don’t shoot the messenger...!
BestWestern
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They can't be any worse than certain recently refurbushed DMUs, some examples were utterly rotten! They'll undergo corrosion repairs if required, no massive issue.
NewtScaramanga
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They'll have to be repaired otherwise SWR are going to be in the brown stuff up to their neck and possibly a bit more.
greaterwest
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The Poole - Waterloo stopping service is a fairly even mixture of 444s and 450s throughout the day.
swt_passenger
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Yes, my experience is usually middle of the day on 450s, but checking the CWNs it is about half and half. Of course not every 'Poole train' runs to the same timings, and some of the am peak up and pm peak down trains join and split with fast services, and the paths are given over to Portsmouth via Eastleigh trains. So I suppose there will be people whose normal travel times look like its predominantly 444s, and vice versa.
Nevertheless, I still doubt there are 16 spare each day to transfer to the Portsmouth route...
swt_passenger
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Unlikely, as they were only 8 x 8 car trains, 20m carriages. At 2+2 seating they'd be a significant reduction in capacity compared to a 12.450. Fairly academic point though as the 460 boat has long since sailed, I doubt anyone is interested in converting them back...
swt_passenger
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Ah OK. In 10 car form, not so sure. They are only 75 mph units now though, so that mod would have to be reversed. (Although some people deny anything mechanical was actually done, it was explained as having happened in Modern Railways.) But they are still reduced capacity compared to a pair of 442s, even in 10 car form.
HarleyDavidson
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Would also involve a lot of training of FR crews & retraining of GF crews. The lower gearing may suit the gradients, but far from ideal for any form of fast running,not that there's going to be much of that in the future.
Monty
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They had their lateral yaw dampers removed too during the rebuild which also restricts their speed.
Did some sleuthing around at work today and there does seem to be an issue with corrosion with the units, but as i said that isn't surprising considering their age and the fact some of them have been in open storage for over a year. Only impression i got was it will mean the entry into service will be delayed for a few months while repairs are carried out.
cjmillsnun
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That seems more reasonable but is going to give them a short term problem whilst the corrosion is sorted.
spark001uk
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Are they still starting a diagram next month with "as-is" units?
TT-ONR-NRN
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Oh I hope so!!!
Monty
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No, first units in service now won't be until next year in their rebuilt/refurbished state.
Matt Taylor
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Expect nothing before May. The first sign of anything happening will be crew training, although I know only two links of drivers will be learning them at Fratton and it requires the creation of a night shift turn which is somewhat problematic, although it's probably only a couple of hours away from some of the very late shifts that already exist.
spark001uk
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So the December '17 rumour was just that then, I did suspect so.
Monty
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No, the intention was to get them out running by December for crew training. And also use them to cover for Desiros going off for refurbishment. Even without the issues recently highlighted it was still likely that the unit's entry to service would be delayed anyway. Training school is stretched thin for instructors and there is enough going on as it is.
The rumour was more than just a rumour. Diagrams are reported as changing for December 17’. Guildford have swapped work with Fratton to bring the proposed diagram into line for 442 work. Effectively most of the services that were identified months ago will now be worked by one depot with training on the side. I’m listening to some of the jungle drums and I hear that Fratton guards are a bit miffed that a high revenue train will be replaced with a 12 car stopper?
In regards to @Matt Taylor comment, would it not make sense to also train up the MPV link, they’re mixed traction people, they do night turns. Would keep more people happy.
In regards to @Matt Taylor comment, would it not make sense to also train up the MPV link, they’re mixed traction people, they do night turns. Would keep more people happy.
3141
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I think people use the term "condemned" without any clear meaning. In reality, you can make most things fit for further service - whether it's a building, a train or a road vehicle - if you're prepared to spend money on the necessary repairs. Whether you're prepared to spend it depends on your assessment of how serious the problems are and how badly you need the item to be back in working order. I'm not surprised if there are some serious problems with the 442s and maybe they are so serious that some people take the view it would be uneconomic to repair them. But if SWR look at the other options that are available and decide that those are even more problematical, they'll bite the bullet and get on with the 442s.
Matt Taylor
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We have just received our new rosters and diagrams for the winter timetable and there are several duties containing Class 442 booked work, these will be operated by Desiro stock until the 442s are ready for use presumably.
SpacePhoenix
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Do SWR have any Driver Instructors/Trainers (whatever the actual job title is) trained up on the 442s yet?
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