RMT dispute on XC

Kite159 · 15 Nov 2017

Possible strike/disruption on XC services by RMT members this coming Sunday:

Unfortunately, the RMT union has called a possible strike for Sunday 19 November that could significantly affect CrossCountry train services.

We are still engaged with the union in talks, so remain hopeful that the matter can be resolved without the need for a strike. As soon as the outcome of these talks is known we will inform our customers, hopefully by lunchtime on Thursday, of any changes to our services.

If the strike were to go ahead, we would only be able to operate a reduced service between 09:00 and 19:00, but using some longer trains. Some services would finish earlier than normal and some stations will have no CrossCountry services, although alternative travel arrangements are being prepared. Even so, with fewer trains available we expect all our services, and any replacement bus services, to be very busy.

If you travel and your service is delayed by 30 minutes or more, you will be eligible for Delay Repay compensation. You can make your claim using our online form or by collecting a form from any staffed station.

Our priority will be to keep you informed, updated and on the move, so please check this page again for up to date information before you travel. We have listed answers to some general questions, such as refunds, alternative routes and travel options, here. You may also find helpful information through on our Twitter and Facebook pages, or by contacting our Customer Relations team on 03447 369123 (please choose option 3)

Hopefully it doesn't catch many members out who might have wanted to head out on a day trip somewhere, or even making use of the train

https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/strike

RailUK Forums

coxxy · 15 Nov 2017

It won't be a strike.. the unions have to give 2 weeks notice.

At a guess I would say that the RMT members aren't contracted to work Sundays and have decided to have the day off in protest for something.

Minilad · 15 Nov 2017

Since when has people not working when they don't have to been called a strike

1e10 · 15 Nov 2017

Any idea what is at the centre of the dispute?

Kite159 · 15 Nov 2017

Minilad said:
Since when has people not working when they don't have to been called a strike

I'm only reporting what it has been called by XC.

HarleyDavidson · 15 Nov 2017

coxxy said:
It won't be a strike.. the unions have to give 2 weeks notice.

At a guess I would say that the RMT members aren't contracted to work Sundays and have decided to have the day off in protest for something.

I don't know how many times it has to be reiterated that every member of staff has the absolute right to their days off from work without prejudice and no one has to work overtime either as that's precisely what it is.

The only time they're obliged to work over time is if the train is stuck in the middle of nowhere or if their T&Cs state that they have to do a specific amount of overtime due to service disruption (signal failure/fatality etc), that doesn't include disputes.

1e10 · 15 Nov 2017

coxxy said:
It won't be a strike.. the unions have to give 2 weeks notice.

Just read that XC have suspended seat reservations for Sunday services which has been the case for at least a few days now.

DarloRich · 15 Nov 2017

Minilad said:
Since when has people not working when they don't have to been called a strike

Since Tories.........................

BestWestern · 15 Nov 2017

(Removed)

Spankthemonkey · 15 Nov 2017

1e10 said:
Any idea what is at the centre of the dispute?

Word from the people at XC i speak to occasionally is the RMT are attempting to force XC make an offer for Sundays to become part of the working week. RMT are aware of the possibility that guards as a second safety critical member of staff will potentially be history within a few years. Having seen what has happened on the southern where guards had their salary transferred over when they became OBS, the rmt are attempting to maximise earnings for their members.

coxxy · 15 Nov 2017

HarleyDavidson said:
I don't know how many times it has to be reiterated that every member of staff has the absolute right to their days off from work without prejudice and no one has to work overtime either as that's precisely what it is.

The only time they're obliged to work over time is if the train is stuck in the middle of nowhere or if their T&Cs state that they have to do a specific amount of overtime due to service disruption (signal failure/fatality etc), that doesn't include disputes.

Didn't say anything otherwise.. completely agree with you!!

Whatevere people think of this matter its something that they and the TOC's need to deal with from time to time. Especially given Xmas eve and NYE are both Sundays this year!!

221129 · 15 Nov 2017

coxxy said:
It won't be a strike.. the unions have to give 2 weeks notice.

At a guess I would say that the RMT members aren't contracted to work Sundays and have decided to have the day off in protest for something.

You would be wrong.

222001 · 16 Nov 2017

coxxy said:
It won't be a strike.. the unions have to give 2 weeks notice.

At a guess I would say that the RMT members aren't contracted to work Sundays and have decided to have the day off in protest for something.

XC have known about this for long enough, it's just only been made public now. I believe the ballot result was on 3rd November.

BestWestern · 16 Nov 2017

221129 said:
You would be wrong.

Are sundays inside the working week at XC?

theironroad · 16 Nov 2017

222001 said:
XC have known about this for long enough, it's just only been made public now. I believe the ballot result was on 3rd November.

Well if the ballot result was on 3/11 and the rmt gave xc notice the same day of industrial action, then Friday 17/11 (tomorrow ) would be the earliest opportunity for action.

It does seem to have been kept quiet, doesn't seem to have even been mentioned on these fora until this thread.

Minilad · 16 Nov 2017

BestWestern said:
Are sundays inside the working week at XC?

No. They are not

221129 · 16 Nov 2017

BestWestern said:
Are sundays inside the working week at XC?

No but Saturdays are... watch this space.

221129 · 16 Nov 2017

theironroad said:
Well if the ballot result was on 3/11 and the rmt gave xc notice the same day of industrial action, then Friday 17/11 (tomorrow ) would be the earliest opportunity for action.

It does seem to have been kept quiet, doesn't seem to have even been mentioned on these fora until this thread.

It's been known about for a while.

AlterEgo · 16 Nov 2017

If this is a refusal of rest day working rather than an actual strike then it’s bad form for XC to call it a strike. It’s weaselly.

Jonfun · 16 Nov 2017

There is a one day strike taking place on one Saturday (I had heard it was this coming Saturday but doesn't look like it is) but as Sundays are outside the working week for XC Guards then it's simply not working their (optional) Sundays until Christmas.

1e10 · 16 Nov 2017

AlterEgo said:
If this is a refusal of rest day working rather than an actual strike then it’s bad form for XC to call it a strike. It’s weaselly.

Protest might be a better choice of word.

hounddog · 16 Nov 2017

Some classic Rail UK pedantry here. By which I mean 'pedantry' that is actually wrong. A significant part of the workforce is declining to work Sundays at the instruction of the union. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... And more to the point it meets the dictionary definition of "a cessation of work, or other obstructive refusal to act normally, as a means of putting pressure on employers, etc" (Chambers 10th edition - other dictionaries are available)

1e10 · 16 Nov 2017

Reservations also disabled for Sunday 26th November.

Jonfun · 16 Nov 2017

hounddog said:
Some classic Rail UK pedantry here. By which I mean 'pedantry' that is actually wrong. A significant part of the workforce is declining to work Sundays at the instruction of the union. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... And more to the point it meets the dictionary definition of "a cessation of work, or other obstructive refusal to act normally, as a means of putting pressure on employers, etc" (Chambers 10th edition - other dictionaries are available)

It doesn't meet that criteria though. They're simply not working their day off.

DarloRich · 16 Nov 2017

hounddog said:
Some classic Rail UK pedantry here. By which I mean 'pedantry' that is actually wrong. A significant part of the workforce is declining to work Sundays at the instruction of the union. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... And more to the point it meets the dictionary definition of "a cessation of work, or other obstructive refusal to act normally, as a means of putting pressure on employers, etc" (Chambers 10th edition - other dictionaries are available)

or alternatively, people are indicating they are not prepared to offer themselves up for voluntary overtime while still complying with their contracted hours. Oddly I am sure you and others would be first to jump on any mistaken phraseology used by a union to describe the position of an employer. If it qucks like duck, etc.

hounddog · 16 Nov 2017

Jonfun said:
It doesn't meet that criteria though. They're simply not working their day off.

So which bit of 'obstructive' or 'putting pressure on the employer' doesn't it meet? Why else are they doing it?

Bletchleyite · 16 Nov 2017

This, once again, is ridiculous.

It is time ALL newly recruited shift-working railway staff had Sunday as part of the working week rota in order for this to filter through properly to the eventual goal of Sunday in the working week for all staff. Mandatory, by law, for all newly-let franchises. If you don't like it, don't apply for the new jobs. Existing staff would just see a slow reduction in Sunday overtime over time, something they can plan for, or if they wish move to the new contracts. (Sunday is not special for most people any more).

If the unions don't like it, let them strike. The short term pain would be good for long-term gain, and they will quickly lose passenger support on an issue like this that has nothing whatsoever to do with safety. (Indeed, reducing overtime reliance INCREASES safety).

AlterEgo · 16 Nov 2017

hounddog said:
Some classic Rail UK pedantry here. By which I mean 'pedantry' that is actually wrong. A significant part of the workforce is declining to work Sundays at the instruction of the union. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck... And more to the point it meets the dictionary definition of "a cessation of work, or other obstructive refusal to act normally, as a means of putting pressure on employers, etc" (Chambers 10th edition - other dictionaries are available)

It’s not pedantry at all. It’s not a strike if you refuse to work overtime. It really isn’t.

It’s an industrial dispute, it’s the refusal of rest day working - absolutely. But it is not a strike and nor should that emotive word be used by XC to describe it.

Only a pedant would attempt to get out the dictionary to prove their point. If my employer told me to work at midnight, outside my contracted hours, and I said no (perhaps even at the instruction of the Union, who think I ought to be paid properly for this disruption) I would most certainly not be on strike. No way. I’d be declining overtime.

Bletchleyite · 16 Nov 2017

AlterEgo said:
It’s not pedantry at all. It’s not a strike if you refuse to work overtime. It really isn’t.

It’s an industrial dispute, it’s the refusal of rest day working - absolutely. But it is not a strike and nor should that emotive word be used by XC to describe it.

If the reason for not working is because of a dispute/disagreement, which it is, that should be made honestly clear too. They haven't just all randomly decided they fancy going walking in the Lake District that Sunday. It is co-ordinated protest action.

It is not a strike, but it is tantamount to one, it simply occurs under a different legal framework. It is still withdrawal of labour because of a disagreement with management.

AlterEgo · 16 Nov 2017

Bletchleyite said:
If the reason for not working is because of a dispute/disagreement, which it is, that should be made honestly clear too. They haven't just all randomly decided they fancy going walking in the Lake District that Sunday. It is co-ordinated protest action.

It is not a strike, but it is tantamount to one, it simply occurs under a different legal framework. It is still withdrawal of labour because of a disagreement with management.

I agree. This is an industrial dispute. My issue is solely around the use of the emotive word “strike” where “industrial action” would be much more reflective.

RMT dispute on XC

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