Ticket validity - burden of proof

My experience with printouts from websites is that they are rejected with “the website is out of date” or “I can only go with what I get officially”.

island said:

My experience with printouts from websites is that they are rejected with “the website is out of date” or “I can only go with what I get officially”.

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Yes exactly the experience I mentioned...

marshmallow said:

When I tried to board a bus...the driver said that the ticket was not valid as it is not a Travelcard. I explained that it is valid due to disruptions and showed him the webpage [National Rail] but he said that he gets advised when train tickets are allowed on buses due to delays and this had not happened.

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marshmallow said:

This is true, however the fact that people like us who know exactly when such tickets are valid need to do this shows that clearly there is a problem, as the average traveller has a lot less knowledge and would believe staff when they say that a ticket is not valid. This leads to people getting in trouble, overpaying etc. unfairly.

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I agree with what you're saying, but how could the problem be rectified?

island said:

My experience with printouts from websites is that they are rejected with “the website is out of date” or “I can only go with what I get officially”.

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I haven't had this issue with regard to rail fares but I have found a lot of websites that haven't been kept up to date over the years.

island said:

My experience with printouts from websites is that they are rejected with “the website is out of date” or “I can only go with what I get officially”.

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Replace the second one with "I know it is not valid because I have worked here xx years".

I still genuinely fail to understand why so many of them are convinced the non-existent rule they quote is correct when the completely up to date website clearly shows it isn't.

Just to finish this story, I received the following from Arriva in response to my letter encouraging them to ensure drivers were fully aware of the validity of this ticket type...

I am writing following the incident which occurred recently with a route 534 bus service.

Your comments were passed on to the manager of the Bolton depot who has informed me that the driver has been identified. He has advised me that our drivers do not see many of this tickets and there is uncertainty when they are presented. However he has stated that he will re-inforce to the drivers that they are valid with a notice to staff to remind them of this to alleviate the problem.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused. Do not hesitate to contact the Customer Service Team if you have any further problems.

maffi209 said:

He has advised me that our drivers do not see many of this tickets and there is uncertainty when they are presented. However he has stated that he will re-inforce to the drivers that they are valid with a notice to staff to remind them of this to alleviate the problem.

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And herein lies the problem. Rather than "reminding" people about a specific ticket, they should be making it clear that, if a driver is uncertain when any uncommon ticket is presented, the appropriate action is one of (i) checking with control (ii) accepting any official confirmation of validity produced by the passenger (iii) giving the benefit of the doubt.

Such instructions should be easy to remember and hence will be much more effective in alleviating the problem across the board than a reminder about one ticket type, which will not help with other ticket types and, if the ticket in question is really that rare, is likely to to have been forgotten the next time the driver encounters one.

Same principle applies to checkers on the railway.

I've had problems myself using TFGM Wayfarer on bus companies which the ticket is valid on, because i brought the ticket at rail stations printed on standard Orange ticket stock with Rail Ranger printed in large letters & GM Wayfarer printed in small letters under available. TGFM should do what WY Metro do with there DayRover tickets & use different coloured tickets

maffi209 said:

Just to finish this story, I received the following from Arriva in response to my letter encouraging them to ensure drivers were fully aware of the validity of this ticket type...

I am writing following the incident which occurred recently with a route 534 bus service.

Your comments were passed on to the manager of the Bolton depot who has informed me that the driver has been identified. He has advised me that our drivers do not see many of this tickets and there is uncertainty when they are presented. However he has stated that he will re-inforce to the drivers that they are valid with a notice to staff to remind them of this to alleviate the problem.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention and please accept our apologies for the inconvenience caused. Do not hesitate to contact the Customer Service Team if you have any further problems.

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Hopefully, that'll do the trick. Unfortunately, Arriva don't (in my opinion) have a terribly good track record when it comes to keeping their bus drivers apprised of ticket validity.

My experience was with Arriva Wales with a North Wales Explorer. Four successive drivers on the Chester-Wrexham bus service refused to accept what was a perfectly valid ticket. Upon complaining to Arriva, I was told that they would put things right, but I read (on this very forum), of someone else that experienced the same issue a few months after my complaint.

I have had the same issues before. I had an Avonrider ticket which is valid on most bus companies around the Bristol and Bath area. I tried using the A4 Air Decker service, the website claims "On Bath Bus Co service A4, AvonRider is not valid between Highridge Common and Bristol Airport.". But I was travelling on the stretch between Keynsham and Bath which is valid. On the outward journey, the driver had to take a second look to make sure it was valid, I had no problem with this.
On the return the driver refused to accept it, even thought it was clearly advertised on the bus window! claiming it wasn't showing up on his system.

When I contacted the company to complain they said they were sorry and told me "All our drivers receive thorough training when joining Bath Bus, including being made aware of all the different tickets available to passengers."
Clearly this wasn't and probably isn't still the case...

MG11 said:

It's a good idea when travelling with tickets like that to carry print outs of validity from the local authority's website. I'm thinking of getting a similar Manchester based Wayfarer, which I beleive I can use from Grindleford, into Manchester, but I wouldn't dream of doing it without something written to prove validity. Sadly, frontline staff have so many ticket types, it is impossible for them to remember every single one.

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It's also a good idea to, where possible, carry enough funds to get out of trouble without resorting to an expensive overdraft. I know this is not an option for everyone though.

Statto said:

....TGFM should do what WY Metro do with there DayRover tickets & use different coloured tickets

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I don't agree. It would effectively preclude (for example) their sale onboard trains and/or at ticket offices outwith the area and/or via TVMs etc. All that needs to happen is as described elsewhere - the staff attitude of "I am right, you are wrong" needs to shift.