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Chiltern Timetables (1970s-80s)

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TurboFintan

TurboFintan

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The Chiltern line is one of my local lines, so I wanted to know what the timetable was like in the 70s and 80s before NSE, to see what stations were called at and the frequency on these lines:

London to Banbury via High Wycombe
London to Aylesbury via Amersham
Princes Risborough to Aylesbury

Many thanks in advance.
 
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TurboFintan

TurboFintan

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eastwestdivide said:
Bit of info over here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/chiltern-main-line-during-the-70s-80s.146008/
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll give that a read.

Metroman62 said:
I have extracts from some old timetables of services through Amersham. Some include Marylebone services which may be of interest to you. See http://www.metroland.org.uk/amersham/metro/timetables.htm
Click to expand...

That's wonderful, had a look through your web and I'm surprised the Aylesbury to London trains were fairly frequent on a weekday morning, virtually the same frequency as nowadays.
 
30907

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Not much chance of increased frequency via Amersham, so skipping stops is the only option.
My impression is that there has been little housing growth on that section, too, compared with the ex GW section (aka M40 corridor), Bicester and beyond.
 
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BanburyBlue

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From what I remember as a lad trainspotting at Banbury, off-peak I think it was generally 1 tph. I think there were more rush hour trains especially in the morning. It was single track from Aynho junction to Princes Risborough with (IIRC) just the one passing loop at Bicester North.

General calling pattern (again I think) was: Banbury, (King's Sutton), Bicester North, Princes Risborough, (Saunderton), High Wycombe, Beaconsfield, Seer Green, Gerrard's Cross, Denham Golf Club, Denham, Wembley Stadium, London Marylebone.

A long journey - 2 hours?

No corridor stock - BR Class 115 with the one toilet between the first and second class in the TCL coach, but inaccessible from the other 3 coaches.

4 car trains, sometimes doubled up to 8 cars in the peak.

Apologies if I've misconstrued any of the above - was a long time ago.
 
eastwestdivide

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A quick scanning session, and some representative pages from tables 114 and 115 from the May 1978 all-line timetable.
All Cl. 115 DMUs I think, apart from in T114, the trains from Baker Street with a [2] symbol are LT Met line trains of course, and the one buffet service in T115 that was loco-hauled serving Paddington via the Chiltern line.
 

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TurboFintan

TurboFintan

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eastwestdivide said:
A quick scanning session, and some representative pages from tables 114 and 115 from the May 1978 all-line timetable.
All Cl. 115 DMUs I think, apart from in T114, the trains from Baker Street with a [2] symbol are LT Met line trains of course, and the one buffet service in T115 that was loco-hauled serving Paddington via the Chiltern line.
Click to expand...

Wow brilliant! This is exactly what I needed so many thanks for that! A question, was there a Birmingham to Paddington train as well?

BanburyBlue said:
From what I remember as a lad trainspotting at Banbury, off-peak I think it was generally 1 tph. I think there were more rush hour trains especially in the morning. It was single track from Aynho junction to Princes Risborough with (IIRC) just the one passing loop at Bicester North.

General calling pattern (again I think) was: Banbury, (King's Sutton), Bicester North, Princes Risborough, (Saunderton), High Wycombe, Beaconsfield, Seer Green, Gerrard's Cross, Denham Golf Club, Denham, Wembley Stadium, London Marylebone.

A long journey - 2 hours?

No corridor stock - BR Class 115 with the one toilet between the first and second class in the TCL coach, but inaccessible from the other 3 coaches.

4 car trains, sometimes doubled up to 8 cars in the peak.

Apologies if I've misconstrued any of the above - was a long time ago.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the recall, I was told it was a long drag to High Wycombe compared to nowadays.

BanburyBlue said:
Can anyone suggest a good place to buy old railway timetables?
Click to expand...

You can try Ebay or this website: https://britishrailwaybooks.co.uk/wtt/ukwtt.php (although this has quite a few sold out)
 
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Bishopstone

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eastwestdivide said:
A quick scanning session, and some representative pages from tables 114 and 115 from the May 1978 all-line timetable.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the scans.

So, on Sundays, a two minute connection at Amersham from the Met train, ex-Baker Street, onto the hourly BR Aylesbury shuttle. I wonder if it waited in the event of LU lateness...!
 
eastwestdivide

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TurboFintan said:
Wow brilliant! This is exactly what I needed so many thanks for that! A question, was there a Birmingham to Paddington train as well?
...
Click to expand...
Yes, the timetable was more or less symmetrical - I just posted enough to give a flavour of the service levels/frequency.

I was spotting in the SE from about 77-84, and the Marylebone DMUs were among the last to get underlined in the book. Spent the evening rush hour at West Hampstead once, just to fill in a few gaps, while also underground spotting (used plenty of paper!)
 
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MarlowDonkey

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TurboFintan said:
A question, was there a Birmingham to Paddington train as well?
Click to expand...

One morning peak train called at Wycombe and went to Paddington. I think it got to Paddington around 9am. But was it from Birmingham?

The off-peak service was just one train an hour on the Wycombe line and one per hour on the Amersham line. You can perhaps see the later temptation to convert Marylebone into a coach terminus, although the commuter hour trains remained busy.

Going back even further, what was the service like in the 1950s or 1960s? High Wycombe and other major stations would have services to and from Birmingham using Paddington.
 
30907

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MarlowDonkey said:
One morning peak train called at Wycombe and went to Paddington. I think it got to Paddington around 9am. But was it from Birmingham?

Going back even further, what was the service like in the 1950s or 1960s? High Wycombe and other major stations would have services to and from Birmingham using Paddington.
Click to expand...

The 1970s Paddington service was from/to Birmingham until its last years when it was cut back to Banbury.
The post 1967 Intercity service started as approx. 2-hourly but bit by bit services were switched to run via Oxford, and the Marylebone DMUs extended to cover.
In the esrly 60s the service had been enhanced while the WCML was being electrified.

Going back to 1959, this is the picture (weekdays, down):
Stoppers from Marylebone about hourly, first stop West Ruislip.
Peaks only and Saturday lunchtimes at the inner stations.

One train from Padd to Banbury first stop Gerrards X.
Wycombe to Aylesbury basically WR locals - and there was a handful of Risborough to Banbury auto trains (14×× and trailer)

Expresses from Padd at 9am (High W), 9.10 (H W and Bicester), 4.10, 6.10, 7.10 (Bicester), plus the famous Bicester slip coach off the 5.10. Otherwise it was first stop Banbury or Leamington.
This history perhaps explains why the post-Beeching service on the joint line was so thin!
 
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The two Chiltern Lines got a whole new set of diesels in 1960-61. Power cars 51651-80 and 51861-900 gave 35 4-car units, which were somewhat isolated from the rest of the system. This coincided with the changes and electrification of the Metropolitan Line out to Amersham.

Following this, operations on these lines stayed pretty much set in stone for the next 30 years, until Network SouthEast replaced these trains in the early 1990s. They were actually some of the better diesel units of their era, fortunately, but services stayed pretty fixed. The Paddington expresses were withdrawn progressively around the late 1960s, and a few of the diesels extended from Princes Risborough to Banbury to part-compensate, though it was often quicker to take the remaining Paddington expresses via Reading. But there was long a pitiful service to the inner stations out to West Ruislip.

So, on Sundays, a two minute connection at Amersham from the Met train, ex-Baker Street, onto the hourly BR Aylesbury shuttle. I wonder if it waited in the event of LU lateness...!
Click to expand...
You bet it did. In fact anyone who dispatched the Aylesbury with the Met just running in would have been for the High Jump with the District Superintendent the next morning. Because it was seen as more important to serve the passengers than to report percentage punctuality figures to Chris Grayling. Not any more, alas.
 
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MichaelAMW

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Taunton said:
Following this, operations on these lines stayed pretty much set in stone for the next 30 years, until Network SouthEast replaced these trains in the early 1990s. They were actually some of the better diesel units of their era, fortunately, but services stayed pretty fixed. The Paddington expresses were withdrawn progressively around the late 1960s, and a few of the diesels extended from Princes Risborough to Banbury to part-compensate, though it was often quicker to take the remaining Paddington expresses via Reading. But there was long a pitiful service to the inner stations out to West Ruislip.
Click to expand...

30907 said:
The 1970s Paddington service was from/to Birmingham until its last years when it was cut back to Banbury.
The post 1967 Intercity service started as approx. 2-hourly but bit by bit services were switched to run via Oxford, and the Marylebone DMUs extended to cover.
Click to expand...


Not quite: there was a change over in one go in 1973 from Paddington to Marylebone for the stations north of Princes Risborough. After the end of the trains via Birmingham Snow Hill, replaced by the semi-fast trains to New Street, some of the Birmingham - London trains were indeed diverted via Reading but there was a Banbury - Paddington connection to compensate.
 
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