I'll be in Paris on business next Wednesday. I should have a couple of hours between leaving work and catching the train home. It's a bit of a long shot, but is there anywhere I can go to get in some short distance loco-haulage in that time (preferably diesel but electric is fine too; the more heritage the better)? If there's nowhere I can actually ride on them, is there some place I can at least get photos (my camera happens to be very good at low-light shots as long as the train isn't moving so anywhere's fine as long as I can see the front when the trains are stopped)?
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Loco haulage for short journeys around Paris?
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Peter Mugridge
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St Lazare - about half the suburban workings are loco hauled. Electric... class 27300. You could easily ride 5 or 6 sets in two hours.
class387
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I think the old diesel BB67400s still do peak extras on Transilien (suburban) Line P from Paris Est to La Ferte Milon (times are 1705 and 1805 if I remember them correctly). That would be your best bet is they are running.
CC 72100
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Correct, first point you can turn around is Meaux (30-35 minutes). Also TER out of Gare de Lyon every two hours at :49, which you could do to somewhere like Melun. Again 30 minutes or so.
Both of the above are zone 5 first stop - if you're not wishing to go that far you'll be a lot more limited although Peter's suggestions out of Montparnasse and St Lazare then come into play..
SHD
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If you only have a couple hours before “going home”, which I understand as taking the Eurostar, I would recommend a quick return journey to Creil or even Compiegne.
Example on a workday:
Paris Nord 17 h 19 - Compiegne 17 h 58
Compiegne 18 h 35 - Paris Nord 19 h 26
But it will be dark, the outbound train (“odd” as we say here as opposed to “even” when going towards Paris) will be full with commuters, and Compiegne is not a very interesting station (although it has a moving monument in remembrance of deportees).
Example on a workday:
Paris Nord 17 h 19 - Compiegne 17 h 58
Compiegne 18 h 35 - Paris Nord 19 h 26
But it will be dark, the outbound train (“odd” as we say here as opposed to “even” when going towards Paris) will be full with commuters, and Compiegne is not a very interesting station (although it has a moving monument in remembrance of deportees).
Cheers all! I'll run the timings for various possible trips, you've given me some good ideas! I'll check some timings myself. I'm booked on the 20:13 Eurostar (didn't want to get home too late, since I'm working the following day), but I'd tend to leave work around 6-ish (maybe a little before), so some of these suggestions probably wouldn't work. I'm hoping to find time for *something* diesel but it's possible I'll be unlucky.
EDIT: Hmm, actually, the Meaux timings are looking promising — I could probably get to Paris Est in time for the 18:05, then there's one back shortly after but not so shortly as to be too easily missable. That then seems to arrive with plenty of time to spare for Eurostar checkin...
EDIT: Hmm, actually, the Meaux timings are looking promising — I could probably get to Paris Est in time for the 18:05, then there's one back shortly after but not so shortly as to be too easily missable. That then seems to arrive with plenty of time to spare for Eurostar checkin...
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The obvious choice is the La Ferté Milon, bearing in mind that diesel loco haulage on SNCF is getting ever close to extinction. The La Ferté Milon service is an anachronism, very surprising that it hasn't succumbed yet.
The obvious problem is late running/service cancellation. The 18.05 ex Est gives only one return possibility before you need to start the check in process at Nord. If this train is not running correctly (its a train from Chateau Thierry) then you would be stuffed.
Getting the 17.05 would hugely negate this problem if you happen to be lucky in terms of finishing your work commitments.
The obvious problem is late running/service cancellation. The 18.05 ex Est gives only one return possibility before you need to start the check in process at Nord. If this train is not running correctly (its a train from Chateau Thierry) then you would be stuffed.
Getting the 17.05 would hugely negate this problem if you happen to be lucky in terms of finishing your work commitments.
class387
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While were on the subject, do you know when this is running until? I want to ride it but can't make it until at least Febuary 2018.
CC 72100
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Honestly not sure - the Provins line is being electrified which will free up a load of Bi-mode units for La Ferté-Milon.
Best way to check is to use the official blog of the Line P, and check the 'rush hour train formation in the morning' feature - if it's 'rame inox' (steel coaches) for 17250 and 17252 then all is good as it means they'll also go back in the evening! https://malignep.transilien.com/composition-des-trains-ligne-p/
class387
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Interesting. I thought they would be replaced by bi-modes displaced by the new Paris to Belfort units at the end of the year, but happily that's not the case. Do you know when Provins electrification will be completed?
CC 72100
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So the CC 72100s on the Intercités were replaced by bi-mode Intercity units.
The Line P diesel section are ran with bi-mode BB82500 units (Provins and La Ferté-Milon).
Belief is that when Provins electrification is completed, some more Francilien (Z 50000) or maybe even Regio2N (as per Line R) will be ordered for Provins (100% electric units on 100% electric services), and the bi-mode BB8500s can go to La Ferté-Milon and most released to be cascaded to other TER areas in search of 4-car bi-mode units.
At present La Ferté-Milon is served by a pair of BB82500s pootling between LFM and Meaux and back every hour. 2x Rush-hour extras are BB 67400 and load 8 (2 x4 sets) which provide a direct train for stations Meaux-LFM but also additional fast capacity for Meaux. When I did it back in July (bear in mind July/August = Paris is on holiday), everyone left the front coach at Meaux and I counted 7 people in total when I alighted at boundary station Crouy-sur-Ourcq.
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class387
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Great! Should still be able to do it next year then.
CC 72100
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Should be 2020 is the target date - this link confirms the fleet deployment plans: https://malignep.transilien.com/2016/09/20/electrification-de-ligne-paris-troyes/ as per above.
The IC long distance trains were 72100+Corail. Now replaced by Intercity Regiolis units. This does not necessarily displace anything as the other services are TER not IC and presumably retain the same AGC units (for now at least)
For the record the Bi-Mode AGC units are B82500, not BB8500 (something completely different - and much more interesting!) nor BB82500
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CC 72100
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Good shout - I should have kept it simple with 'AGC family'
I usually just say AGC, BGC or ZGC. For some reason I very often don't use XGC which would refer to the diesel only version.
The other standard term for the bi-modes is BiBi
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43096
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BiBi is a reference to the electro-diesel version that can operate under both 1500V DC and 25kV AC - "bi-mode bi-voltage". The initial electro-diesel version was 1500V DC only in electric mode.
Are you talking about going all the way to the end? I don't think I'll do that. If nothing else, it'll be lovely to film it departing Meaux. Besides that, as you've identified, Meaux would be a lot safer in terms of return workings; I don't want to risk missing my Eurostar.
Do you know what time the stock is typically opened up for passengers? Bearing in mind my work-related constraints it would be nice to be able to take a couple of photos before getting a seat by the loco. Don't really want to be cramming on at the last minute!
SHD
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You may want to ask this guy on Twitter, he drives these trains:
https://twitter.com/Memento_SNCF
https://twitter.com/Memento_SNCF/status/932639936800591872
It seems to me, from the picture, that the locomotive was pulling during the "even" journey (towards Paris) and pushing during the the "odd" journey.
https://twitter.com/Memento_SNCF
https://twitter.com/Memento_SNCF/status/932639936800591872
It seems to me, from the picture, that the locomotive was pulling during the "even" journey (towards Paris) and pushing during the the "odd" journey.
SHD
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But I may well be wrong, as this picture shows the loco pulling the odd 18.05 train:
https://twitter.com/sausaurj/status/930854134571560960
https://twitter.com/sausaurj/status/930854134571560960
Argh, bowled! Firstly I had great difficulty getting to Gare de l'Est. Seems like there was a broken down train on the 7 metro, so I ended up getting there *at* 18:05 despite leaving ages before (if I'd realised what was going on just slightly sooner I might have been able to walk it, but sadly all the locals seemed to think it would be faster to stay on the train, and my French definitely isn't good enough to understand any of the announcements). But that didn't matter; the train was there when I got there! So I got some pictures. But the reason it was still there is because the coaching stock had disgraced itself and a door had failed. Despite the best efforts of the (very friendly!) guard and fitters, they were unable to get it sorted, so they kicked everyone off in the end. I waited to see if it'd depart out of service but it didn't, so now I'm at Gare du Nord waiting for my train. Damn! Well, at least I got pictures; I guess if it hadn't failed I wouldn't have even got pictures, thanks to the 7.
Another thing the guard (?) told me is that it was "the last day", but his English wasn't perfect so he probably meant "the last of the day". I'd expect quite a few more of the French equivalent of cranks were it really the last day (there were one or two but there can't have been too many as all the windows in the front coach were shut). So hopefully I will get another chance to actually ride it! I'm guessing it only runs on weekdays (since it's a peak extra)? Or could I pop up one Saturday and go for it or the 17:05?
Another thing the guard (?) told me is that it was "the last day", but his English wasn't perfect so he probably meant "the last of the day". I'd expect quite a few more of the French equivalent of cranks were it really the last day (there were one or two but there can't have been too many as all the windows in the front coach were shut). So hopefully I will get another chance to actually ride it! I'm guessing it only runs on weekdays (since it's a peak extra)? Or could I pop up one Saturday and go for it or the 17:05?
Peter Mugridge
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I'm pretty sure it's Monday to Friday only.
And if you want somewhere to stay that's close by and gives you a view of the throat at Est, please refer to this illustrated post of mine on the accommodation thread...
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/accommodation-suggestions-and-reviews.55619/page-9#post-1572788
One thing to note... the name of the hotel has changed; it's no longer part of TimHotel but all other details are still the same.
And if you want somewhere to stay that's close by and gives you a view of the throat at Est, please refer to this illustrated post of mine on the accommodation thread...
https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/accommodation-suggestions-and-reviews.55619/page-9#post-1572788
One thing to note... the name of the hotel has changed; it's no longer part of TimHotel but all other details are still the same.
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No, absolutely Monday - Friday peaks only I'm afraid. And most definitely push pull.
The LFM trains belong to the genre of train that, back in the 'good old days' of the late 1970s, 1980s and 1990s, I used to call "the SNCF 5 o'clock". One or more loco hauled trains would depart at around 5 pm M-F on most lines out of every large French city or regional centre, with corresponding early morning inbound trains. They were easy to identify up to the 1980s when the paper timetables still showed 'autorail' at the top of the train column if the train was a unit. If the train departed at any time between 16.30 and 18.00 and was M-F only and had no 'Autorail' heading then one took an interest and more often than not it would be something interesting.
The only problem was choosing which line to do if there were several going off in different directions.
Here are some of my pictures of the genre from many moons ago...
First up, Nantes 67300 and DEV Inox stock
Limoges Benedictins. BB900 and 'Modernisés Est' aka 'Romilly' coaches
Roanne. 72000 and USI stock parked up after arriving from Lyon and running round to be set for the morning train back to Lyon (Lyon - Roanne had more than one of the peak hour extras as it is a very busy commuter route)
A real bonus. Double headed 72000 at Tarare (couldn't go any further towards Roanne that day as I had to get back to Geneva for the night)
even more hairy. An international version, Strasbourg - Offenburg, with scratch SNCF stock hauled by TWO DB Br181s!
Nancy. BB13000 with metalliques Est and 'Bruhat' stock
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SHD
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True at Est but it is not the case at Saint-Lazare, where odd trains are pushed and even trains pulled. See that picture (taken from the buffers: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/BB_17000#/media/File:Bb17011_St-Lazare_Feb2010.jpg)
Here is a lengthy discussion on the reasons of this oddity: http://www.trains-en-voyage.com/forum/forum/archives-annuelles/les-archives-du-teo-d-avant/la-double-voie-de-l-info/actualités-et-discussions-ferroviaires/54324-locos-toujours-en-tête-à-paris-st-lazare
With the loco pulling inbound trains, it is possible to use the locomotive's direct brake to perform a nice and smooth stop as close as possible to the buffers (Saint-Lazare has short platforms).
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