I'd agree that Northampton could be a terminus point for a E/W service from Reading. It'd connect what is a very large, not that well-connected town into the national network more properly - especially to all points west/south west via Oxford, Didcot and Reading. Lots of possibilities and options.
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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]
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swt_passenger
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Remember all the earlier discussion along the lines of what is the point of a separate EWR construction and operating company?
Well, yesterday's announcement puts more meat on the bones, and supports my view that the earlier announcements were just so much rhetoric and spin - either that or were badly reported:
Well, yesterday's announcement puts more meat on the bones, and supports my view that the earlier announcements were just so much rhetoric and spin - either that or were badly reported:
If NR are now doing all the stuff that is already part of the existing Network, then it conveniently separates out all the issues with the difficult part of the route. When that eventually gets kicked into the long grass again it won't need to be considered a NR failure...
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Railwaysceptic
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The section between Bletchley and Claydon Junction is not part of the current network. It has been "mothballed" for one hell of a long time. From Claydon Junction to Bicester has been used only once in a blue moon by diverted freight trains.
The interesting aspect of this announcement is that Network Rail has been allowed back in the room. Until now the idea was that re-building the route would be done by the train operator, as Network Rail has "cocked-up" - please excuse my idiomatic English - on such a huge scale that it would be prudent to hand responsibility to a TOC.
I'm encouraged that the thinking now is of extending the Princes Risborough/Aylesbury shuttle to Bletchley instead of Milton Keynes to Marylebone. Although it's single track only, the Aylesbury/Princes Risborough route is well laid out and could be upgraded to a 100 mph route without major earth works. Mind you, Network rail being Network Rail, I'm sure they'll say it'll cost 100 billion!
The Planner
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Bletchley to Claydon may be out of use but it is still part of the network, much like the Ironbridge branch and others that see no trains or maintenance. As for NR being "allowed back in the room" and letting a TOC do it, Chiltern didn't manage it with Evergreen 3. The shuttle won't be extended anywhere, I would put cash on that. The single line doesn't need upgrading to deliver the East West timetable and it was only going up to about 80 in the original plans before being deemed surplus.
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edwin_m
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The quote above referring to Princes Risborough northwards could well be just the limits of infrastructure work not the endpoints of the train service. I'm not sure why a shuttle from Princes Risborough would make more sense than a through train from Marylebone - although it would be uncompetitive for end to end journeys it opens up intermeditae opportunities such as High Wycombe to MK.
Not sure there's any real value in that - Aylesbury - Princes Risborough journey time is only 18 minutes with two stops. It's just under 8 miles long.
The practical benefit of raising it to 100mph is probably negligible - the longest stretch is Aylesbury to Little Kimble at just over 4 miles.
Better accelerating units would probably make more of a difference than raising the linespeed to 100mph.
To offer a practical insight as to why 100mph is probably unnecessary - Potters Bar to Welwyn Gdn City is roughly 8 miles and has 3 stops and takes 14 minutes - that's using 75 mph Class 313 EMUs which have quick acceleration.
Whereas if you put a 100 mph Class 317 on it, it would struggle to keep to time because they are slower accelerating but can't make use of the higher top speed.
Whereas if you put a 100 mph Class 317 on it, it would struggle to keep to time because they are slower accelerating but can't make use of the higher top speed.
67018
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Wasn’t Claydon to Bicester used fairly regularly until the Evergreen 3 work came along?
I can’t see any EWR service terminating at Princes Risborough when one of the main local drivers was improved connectivity from High Wycombe. Most of the service along the branch goes to and from Marylebone today.
And much of any upgrade cost, if the Bicester to Oxford work is any guide, will be replacing level crossings, upgrading knackered infrastructure and dealing with unexpected rare wildlife.
I can’t see any EWR service terminating at Princes Risborough when one of the main local drivers was improved connectivity from High Wycombe. Most of the service along the branch goes to and from Marylebone today.
And much of any upgrade cost, if the Bicester to Oxford work is any guide, will be replacing level crossings, upgrading knackered infrastructure and dealing with unexpected rare wildlife.
swt_passenger
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EWR website has been saying for years that the Milton Keynes via Aylesbury service will be connected to an existing through service to Marylebone. Don't see why it is suddenly up for debate really...
The Planner
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I suspect it could end up LM at Northampton-esque at Aylesbury.
Please no to Northampton ,no Risboro shuttle and yes to London MK via Risboro Aylesbury but all this okay but why six years before trains its not rocket science .The track bed is there ,connections are there just upgrade the trackbed ie dig it up and place new track ballast etc signals go in at same time .The station site at Winslow is bought and could be started now to save time on opening .But this is the Uk talk for twenty years and then talk some more and maybe build its pathetic and the DFT are showing great ineptitude as usual.We need this route in three years as house building is going crazy and local roads cant cope.
richieb1971
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I'm only just starting to believe the MML electrification is real and there are workmen on the ground at the scenes. EWR is still at a point where I believe they could cut it and pretend nothing ever happened.
Everybody states the dates the project should end by, but nobody is bold enough to tell when it will start. And by that I mean the mothballed track bed between swanbourne and where ever that line used to go. Surely all those badgers and other wild life animals that were moved have just set up shop again?
A year or so ago there was someone posting pictures of works going on the mothballed areas. I assume that got so far and stopped?
Everybody states the dates the project should end by, but nobody is bold enough to tell when it will start. And by that I mean the mothballed track bed between swanbourne and where ever that line used to go. Surely all those badgers and other wild life animals that were moved have just set up shop again?
A year or so ago there was someone posting pictures of works going on the mothballed areas. I assume that got so far and stopped?
eMeS
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I've made several visits to Verney Junction, Claydon Brook bridge & Swanbourne Station over the last few years from 2013 onwards - if I did post some images, I expect they're no longer viewable following operational changes by the image host I used.
In August 2013 the tracks etc. at Verney Junction were heavily overgrown.
In 2014 much track clearance had taken place at Verney Junction, Claydon Brook bridge & Swanbourne station.
In 2015 the clearance continued, and the old platforms at Verney Junction were visible.
In July 2016 the contractors appeared to have gone away, and the tracks were overgrown again, and fishplates had been removed from track over Claydon Brook bridge. I've not checked there recently.
I've also taken some photos at the Blue Lagoon, Bletchley part of the line.
PM me if interested in image copies.
Andyjs247
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The project has started. Network Rail held the second round of consultations on Phase 2 earlier this year in July. However you won’t see spades in the ground at Swanbourne for example just yet. Approval in the form of a Transport and Works Act Order is required for certain work, in particular where it is beyond the railway boundaries or new access is required.
That takes maybe 2 years, then contracts have to be let and so on before work on the ground starts in earnest. But it is just (educated) guesswork as to how long the legal process will take to secure the necessary permissions. It depends on how many objections etc. At least the funding is now secured.
Railwaysceptic
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I can't argue with your arithmetic, but there is at least one iteration of East-West Rail that involves upgrading between Princes Risborough and Aylesbury to 100mph. There's another which calls for doubling the track. I understand that local nimbies are getting ready for battle. One Luddite has claimed that 40 mph is sufficient!
If it is correct that tax-payers' money is now available, it would help if we were told which version of East-West Rail is going to be implemented. There have been so many. My guess is it'll be one that does not include electrification.
The Planner
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Those iterations are the enhanced spec which won't be delivered, it is just the basic one without wires where the branch stays as it is.
67018
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The EWR website suggests that they are looking at a Public Enquiry in the first half of 2018 prior to a TWAO being granted. A lot will depend on how many objections need to be dealt with.
It also says, though, that the first actual construction work has started in the shape of a Great Crested Newt habitat in Launton, presumably to shift said newts out of the way of the railway.
I went to a road show for the Risboro Aylesbury Calvert work and whilst there a woman was very agitated over a proposed road bridge because she thought car headlights would shine into her stables and frighten her horses.I asked a rep why 100mph to Aylesbury and his reply just to get them through quicker as a long loop would do instead of dual track.He did not have any idea what sort of service would be in place and as to work north of Aylesbury or what work was required ,he referred me to computer station and that was that.The speed that would be suited to the line would be 60mph and northwards as well as time is not a constraint to the services due to this being far faster than on surrounding roads.
work-traveller
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Is that because the pond is where they want to construct a bridge to replace the crossing? I can't think of where else it could be, as the track is already there. It's a 'Public Inquiry' by the way.
I don't know. However, http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15435558.Great_Crested_Newts_moved_for_railway_works says that it should have been completed by now
DarloRich
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For goodness sake - work has already started. please do try to think before posting.
richieb1971
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What has been done that will help trains reach from Oxford to Bletchley? Most of what was done (moving endangered animals etc) was done so long ago it will have to be done again anyway. EWR can only happen when a very big gap between Oxford and Bletchley is bridged by actual 100mph track. I know there are quite a few steps to take before any of that happens but from my perspective the project is nowhere near the point of no return. If you asked the people in charge they would direct your attention to a curve that was built almost a year ago that allows trains from Oxford to Marylebone. Which whilst nice is not the part of the project I really want to see.
The Planner
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No, time is a constraint as you need to hit the mainline and WCML correctly. Also, if it is too slow then people won't use it, simple as.
67018
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As with most projects like this, a very large chunk of the work required is done up front and not visible. It's not just a case if rocking up and chucking some track down.
Much of it this year seems to have been land referencing work and a whole load of public consultations this summer. The moving endangered animals that was done 'so long ago' was apparently done in September. (Not sure why though, the article on the website doesn't give much detail)
And it's hardly accurate to say the work done to date was limited to the Bicester chord - it was effectively a rebuild of what was previously a 30mph line infested with level crossings.
Incidentally, intended services and opening dates for the Western section are at http://www.eastwestrail.org.uk/train-services/
I seem to remember reading of problems with the level crossing in Bicester on the ring road to the industrial area being closed to road traffic for long periods and a replacement bridge is awkward to construct.Not seen or heard of this project for a while is anything happening here?
67018
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Last I heard the plan was to elevate the ring road (Charbridge Lane) so it can go over the rail line.
The tricky one is the London Road one next to Bicester Village station where there aren't any cheap or obvious solutions.
http://www.langfordlife.org.uk/1204/london-road-level-crossing/ has a link to a 2017 report from Oxfordshire County Council "“Development of Identified Options for London Road Level Crossing, Bicester – Key Findings" https://www.oxfordshire.gov.uk/cms/...transport/majorprojects/KeyFindingsReport.pdf with 3 alternatives, costing £44m, £61m and £65m
Andyjs247
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Lots has been done in Phase 1 already. Not just the Bicester chord. Oxford to Bicester was a real backwater that used to take 26 minutes at max 40mph. It was single track. The passenger service had to fit around the scheduled freight and there were long gaps.
Since reopening through to Oxford, it has been transformed into a 100mph mainline. 2tph Oxford - Bicester - Marylebone. Typical journey time to Oxford is 15 minutes; beats the A34 any day!
London Road level crossing is a tricky one. I understand the favoured option is a tunnel, though it is likely to be £60M+ and as yet no funding.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I understand you lack the ability or willingness to see that there is more to a project of this scale than simply building work but I cant be bothered to explain to you why these pre construction works are crucial to a successful project because I doubt you care.
If you had any project experience you would also know that no project is ever beyond the point of no return. It could be cancelled at any time if the business case no longer stacks up. While it is unlikely once building starts it is not impossible especially if one of these "pointless" pre construction activities discovers, say, some earth works problem or a level crossing that need sot be replaced by a bridge or tunnel.
Even something as simple as the veg clearance we have had recently at Fenny Stratford is an important part of the work. It allows surveyours to access and investigate the embankments and lineside more easily. I am sure you know that this kind of work ( like moving protected creatures) can only happen at certain times of the year.
But yeah, nowt is happening.
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