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Abellio wins West Midlands franchise

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12guard4

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On the issue of the branding, even people in the industry are confused.

The announcer at Wolverhampton (VT) had difficulty the other day, it sounded something like this:

"The train at platform 4 is the XX:XX London Mid... West M... London West... is the XX:XX service to Birmingham New Street"

A guard on a service between Birmingham and Shrewsbury last night flubbed it in a similar fashion.
When they have been announcing London Midland for 10 years it might take a while
 
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Bletchleyite

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Re the Vale there are still a couple of spare 153s parked up at Bletchley, so maybe they genuinely are giving that issue attention. Perhaps they will live there during the week instead of Tyseley?
 

LowLevel

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Is there any evidence DOO is being proposed? It's not been mentioned at all yet.

BBC Midlands Today at lunchtime today quoting that staff have been sent a letter saying maintenance and cleaning may be outsourced and they are looking at moving door controls to the driver.

Hate to say I told you so :p:'(
 

Old Hill Bank

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BBC Midlands Today at lunchtime today quoting that staff have been sent a letter saying maintenance and cleaning may be outsourced and they are looking at moving door controls to the driver.

Hate to say I told you so :p:'(
Station cleaning has been outsourced for many years, what a load of crap.
 

HLE

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Day three on the Vale: ON TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( main line late :( )

PS - there seemed to be 2 150's and 3 x 153's at Bletchley this morning. Nothing like service resilience. I knew our new Dutch overlords would sort things out. Now, where is that paint brush

3 dogboxes? One or two must be conked.

Rumours of DCO/DOO wanting to be implemented not surprising. London Midland will be wanted back before long.
 
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12guard4

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Not in the area to have caught the local news this lunchtime but have since caught up, unsurprising to see West Midlands likely to become the next franchise to pursue DOO. Very carefully worded argument from the TOC stating they intend to have 2 people on board each train to fail to mention whether both will be safety critical. Feel for the employees deskilling and destaffing the rail industry for profit.
 

Bletchleyite

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Rumours of DCO/DOO wanting to be implemented not surprising. London Midland will be wanted back before long.

By staff, primarily, in that context. You see a guard so rarely on the south WCML (it's a specific few who bother doing tickets these days) that the passengers probably already think it's DOO anyway.

(Of course the best answer would be to retain the guards and have them leave the cabs more often as they do on SWR, Northern, ATW etc! There are plenty of unbarriered stations on the south WCML, and I imagine the fare dodgers know that well...)

But away from that (as there's another thread about it)... I would quite happily have stuck with LM, subject to them managing to sign a deal to grab all other 20m OHLE Desiros knocking around as they become spare to allow the end of 4-car operation south of Northampton and on the Trent Valley stoppers. Fit gangways where missing and 2+2 seating (2+1 in 1st) ideally, with layouts tweaked so all units are the same, and new cushions, covers and carpets for the /1s. Job done.
 

oversteer

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Nice to see the @LNRailway new/old Twitter team still clocking off at 7pm despite a major incident closing one of their larger stations ..
 

transportphoto

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Nice to see the @LNRailway new/old Twitter team still clocking off at 7pm despite a major incident closing one of their larger stations ..
Just as any other member of staff going home to their families would do, I can’t blame them for that! Unless there’s a back up team, staff can’t necessarily be told to stay on beyond end of shift!
 

oversteer

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IMO, they should cover Twitter whenever they run trains, many companies do even just for customer service purposes, let alone assisting with incidents. I had hoped the new franchise would bring improvements here, but sadly not.

Good to see 15 minute delay repay now though.
 

Bletchleyite

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IMO, they should cover Twitter whenever they run trains, many companies do even just for customer service purposes, let alone assisting with incidents. I had hoped the new franchise would bring improvements here, but sadly not.

They are committed to going 24/7 on Twitter by March I believe. They need time to recruit - be fair! :)
 

DarloRich

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it was chug to the rescue last night. Waiting for the 1830ish departure from Blethcley chug one trundled in a little late absolutely packed to the gunwales. He was struggling to move under such a load. The poor chug was visibly tired after disgorging such a number of people and this morning was replaced by his newly redecorated brother. Clearly he needed along rest in the sidings!

Re the Vale there are still a couple of spare 153s parked up at Bletchley, so maybe they genuinely are giving that issue attention. Perhaps they will live there during the week instead of Tyseley?

There are - not sure why. Could be staff training.

BBC Midlands Today at lunchtime today quoting that staff have been sent a letter saying maintenance and cleaning may be outsourced and they are looking at moving door controls to the driver.

Hate to say I told you so :p:'(

Rumours of DCO/DOO wanting to be implemented not surprising. London Midland will be wanted back before long.

Interesting idea on the Vale
 

lammergeier

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Just as any other member of staff going home to their families would do, I can’t blame them for that! Unless there’s a back up team, staff can’t necessarily be told to stay on beyond end of shift!

Whilst I don't blame them, it should be remembered that staff of the ground often have to work over to deal with these types of incidents. I'm surprised there isn't the requirement for staff to stay on (paid) should there be disruption.
 

Bletchleyite

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Interesting idea on the Vale

DOO? I doubt it, even though I could see a lot of sense in driver door operation to allow the guard (still safety critical and required) to concentrate on fare collection, tram-style. Might be feasible to build that into the 230s if the unions will accept it, presumably on the condition that no guard = train cancelled.

(I did note that probably about 5 minutes running time were wasted by slow door operation and dispatch the last time I used it)
 

pt_mad

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Not in the area to have caught the local news this lunchtime but have since caught up, unsurprising to see West Midlands likely to become the next franchise to pursue DOO. Very carefully worded argument from the TOC stating they intend to have 2 people on board each train to fail to mention whether both will be safety critical. Feel for the employees deskilling and destaffing the rail industry for profit.

This issue is likely to come up every time a TOC orders new trains now. It seems to be DFT / rolling stock leasing company policy now that any new trains ordered have body side cameras fitted to them from the off.

So any TOC that orders new trains for anything other than intercity work with body side cameras fitted is going to bring up this issue.


I can only assume that London Midland planned to retain class 323s on Birmingham suburban work, supplemented by ex-Northern 323s, with extra 350(4)s on WCML services, retain 350/2s and class 230s on brand lines. All assumptions. However it probably would have meant they would have wished to (and would have had to) keep guards fully safety critical throughout and could offer guarantees fairly early on. And it probably wouldn't have been due to loyalty to their staff, but because they simply did not want to (assumption) order new trains.
Govia appear to be for DOO as much as any other TOC, and if it wanted to order new trains its a fair bet the issue would arise with them too, as it has at Southern. It just probably would have been that they didn't want to pay out for new trains, and so would have to continue operation as it is today.

So its a case of a TOC would need to commit to retain only its existing guard operated stock for the full duration of the franchise and they could then guarantee the role of the guard fully. Any orders for new train stock will activate a dispute as body side cameras seem to be fitted as standard now.
 
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Domh245

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I can only assume that London Midland planned to retain class 323s on Birmingham suburban work, supplemented by ex-Northern 323s

I may be remembering things incorrectly, but I'm reasonably certain that Porterbrook implied that there had been no interest in the 323s during the bidding process, so presumably Govia had bidded new stock as well. Can't remember in what way it was suggested (I want to say that they were proposed as a second flex fleet for Wales, but I may be wrong) but I remember it happening
 

pt_mad

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I may be remembering things incorrectly, but I'm reasonably certain that Porterbrook implied that there had been no interest in the 323s during the bidding process, so presumably Govia had bidded new stock as well. Can't remember in what way it was suggested (I want to say that they were proposed as a second flex fleet for Wales, but I may be wrong) but I remember it happening

Well had this been the case then there's a fair chance a DOO question would have arisen with Govia as well then. Its not like Govia are against DOO on principal. As has been seen with Southern.
 
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TEW

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So its a case of a TOC would need to commit to retain only its existing guard operated stock for the full duration of the franchise and they could then guarantee the role of the guard fully. Any orders for new train stock will activate a dispute as body side cameras seem to be fitted as standard now.
Just because stock is fitted with body side DOO cameras, doesn't mean they have to run DOO. See the 707s introduced on SWT/SWR for example. Fitted with cameras, but operated by guards, and never any suggestion they wouldn't be. The 80x series trains too, although of course there was a dispute on FGW/GWR regarding how they would be operated.
 

BucksBones

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There are quite a few cancellations today on the south WCML due to lack of train crew. LM seemed to have got this sorted but here we are again. This sort of thing often seems to be related to staff morale, are the rumours of DOO already having an effect or am I reading too much into it? (Probably!)

Also I see the practice of running hideously overcrowded 4-carriage trains at weekends whilst the majority of units sit idly in the sidings continues unabated...
 

12guard4

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Just because stock is fitted with body side DOO cameras, doesn't mean they have to run DOO. See the 707s introduced on SWT/SWR for example. Fitted with cameras, but operated by guards, and never any suggestion they wouldn't be. The 80x series trains too, although of course there was a dispute on FGW/GWR regarding how they would be operated.
Absolutely the point just because it is fitted with a camera doesn't mean they have to be used!! As a driver I'm very anti DOO.
 

100andthirty

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BuckBones...they still rely on volunteers for weekend working. This is a hangover from the BR days that neither previous franchisee sorted. Probably no incentive to do so to offset the inevitable pain during negotiation
 

BucksBones

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BuckBones...they still rely on volunteers for weekend working. This is a hangover from the BR days that neither previous franchisee sorted. Probably no incentive to do so to offset the inevitable pain during negotiation


Yes, I know; but surely people are more likely to volunteer to work overtime if they have a good relationship with the company for whom they work? Talk of DOO is hardly likely to endear the new franchisee to its employees.

As I say, perhaps I am reading too much into it at this early stage but under LM the problem did seem to have been largely sorted after a shocking period towards the beginning of their franchise.
 

Lrd

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Its Christmas! Unfortunately this is expected at this time of year and I'm not blaming the drivers...
 

A0wen

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Just as any other member of staff going home to their families would do, I can’t blame them for that! Unless there’s a back up team, staff can’t necessarily be told to stay on beyond end of shift!

Precisely - and the staff would have been TUPE'd over from LM retaining their existing T&Cs.
 

capoldi

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Long time lurker, 1st time poster...

I've been keeping a close eye on the West Midlands bid for quite a while, as someone who works in graphics and who is interested in branding and visual design...and I've been excited about a 'regional' livery for the West Midlands since the idea was first brought up.

Unfortunately, the implementation of this operator change has been abysmal, and so much of it makes no sense to me, someone who is engaged. I dread to think what the average passenger thinks.

My local station, Canley, is served solely by London Northwestern Railway - but is branded as a 'West Midlands Railway' station...what? All the messages and visuals add value to a brand that apparently, no passenger from Canley will ever interact with.

Another station further along my route (Marston Green) is served by both WMR and LNwR - but is branded as a LNwR station.

Add on to this that there is also the Network West Midlands 'n' branding as another layer on top of all this...it's becoming so confusing!
 

t_packer

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Long time lurker, 1st time poster...

I've been keeping a close eye on the West Midlands bid for quite a while, as someone who works in graphics and who is interested in branding and visual design...and I've been excited about a 'regional' livery for the West Midlands since the idea was first brought up.

Unfortunately, the implementation of this operator change has been abysmal, and so much of it makes no sense to me, someone who is engaged. I dread to think what the average passenger thinks.

My local station, Canley, is served solely by London Northwestern Railway - but is branded as a 'West Midlands Railway' station...what? All the messages and visuals add value to a brand that apparently, no passenger from Canley will ever interact with.

Another station further along my route (Marston Green) is served by both WMR and LNwR - but is branded as a LNwR station.

Add on to this that there is also the Network West Midlands 'n' branding as another layer on top of all this...it's becoming so confusing!
Long time lurker, 1st time poster...

I've been keeping a close eye on the West Midlands bid for quite a while, as someone who works in graphics and who is interested in branding and visual design...and I've been excited about a 'regional' livery for the West Midlands since the idea was first brought up.

Unfortunately, the implementation of this operator change has been abysmal, and so much of it makes no sense to me, someone who is engaged. I dread to think what the average passenger thinks.

My local station, Canley, is served solely by London Northwestern Railway - but is branded as a 'West Midlands Railway' station...what? All the messages and visuals add value to a brand that apparently, no passenger from Canley will ever interact with.

Another station further along my route (Marston Green) is served by both WMR and LNwR - but is branded as a LNwR station.

Add on to this that there is also the Network West Midlands 'n' branding as another layer on top of all this...it's becoming so confusing!

That’s very bizzare that Marston Green has gone LNR! I thought all stations in the West Midlands Metropolitan Country would be WMR. Is the Network West Midlands branding appearing at the re-branded stations? It seems like it’s gone from Snow Hill which is a shame - the whole point is that it appears on all West Mids public transport.
 
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