GWR Class 800

Trailfinder · 12 Dec 2017

I had a quick trip up to Paddington today to video the changes of the track layout at Westbourne Park on lines 5/6.

800023 was in platform 1 at 1400 and left on a test run just after.

On returning to Ealing Broadway noted several 800s in North Pole, did not record their numbers, but one was 802002.

RailUK Forums

Trailfinder · 12 Dec 2017

Forgot to add, I have taken a 800 to Reading to try them out.

I sat in a table seat, nobody sitting opposite, so their was plenty of leg room - I am 6ft 2in.

I found the seats firm but bearable, my only complaint was I felt that their was something hard poking me in the back and forcing me into an unnatural position. I was unable to rest my head on the headrest part of the seats, thats if there was a headrest there, because the back of my head was above the seat. If this was a car, it could result in a few whiplash injuries in the event of a rear end collision.

I note on the GWR Help twitter account, when there is a complaint about the uncomfortable seats on the new trains, the response is that the seats are ergonomically designed. Why they just don't say that the seats are nothing to do with GWR and have been specified by the DfT, so complaints should be made to them. The Civil Servants at the DfT must all be midgets.

Master29 · 13 Dec 2017

I know there has been much discussion of the inclusion of foodbars on the Virgin Azumas but off hand does anyone know the first/standard seating in terms of numbers. I do know the Dft draft seating page but I`m guessing that won`t be final. Obviously less standard but more 1st simply because GWR policy.

jimm · 13 Dec 2017

East Coast nine-car sets have 101 first class seats and 510 in standard. Five-car sets are 45 in first, 258 in standard.

I believe that's about 20 fewer seats per train than the GWR sets - perhaps someone knows the exact figures for GWR?

Figures taken from page 160 of the East Coast franchise agreement.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ile/488196/intercity-east-coast-franchise.pdf

D1009 · 13 Dec 2017

Quote pasted from 800 initial diagrams thread.

Railperf said:
For Dec 2018 onwards, clearly 800E point to points should be quicker than existing HST 125 timings, but how will the 800D point to points compare? Are any of the 800D timings going to be improved over HSt125 timings? If so, between which points? And I mean net SRT's, not gross timings which include bags of recovery time. Is there any evidence to support lesser dwell times being allowed for too?

I think the more pertinent question is will there be any change to the way the software regulates the power on diesel as more sections are electrified. I somehow doubt whether anyone is allowed to answer that one at this stage.

Railperf · 13 Dec 2017

D1009 said:
Quote pasted from 800 initial diagrams thread.

I think the more pertinent question is will there be any change to the way the software regulates the power on diesel as more sections are electrified. I somehow doubt whether anyone is allowed to answer that one at this stage.

Yes, a very good question. it has more recently been suggested now that 940hp is available to around 30mph and then ramps back to 750hp by around 60mph. But as before - the actual performance figures in real life somehow don't seem to reflect this - or maybe we don't know how to use our abacus's properly lol. Add to that the suggestion that without being upgraded to 940hp the units would not achieve the high 118's on level track - and that would suggest that maybe the 940hp may be kicking back in at higher speeds to stop the alternators stalling or running out of juice. (or something along those lines). More interestingly, how differently will the 802's perform with their outputs not constrained by DfT and TOC maintenance and availability agreements/ contracts?

Noddy · 14 Dec 2017

Railperf said:
Add to that the suggestion that without being upgraded to 940hp the units would not achieve the high 118's on level track - and that would suggest that maybe the 940hp may be kicking back in at higher speeds to stop the alternators stalling or running out of juice. (or something along those lines).

Are there any East Coast routes that are not wired and go above 100mph???

Railperf · 14 Dec 2017

Noddy said:
Are there any East Coast routes that are not wired and go above 100mph???

No, just 125mph track on the GWML which will remain unwired from Didcot to Bath and Didcot to Bristol Parkway for another year. And sections of 110mph on the Berks and Hants too!

Master29 · 14 Dec 2017

jimm said:
East Coast nine-car sets have 101 first class seats and 510 in standard. Five-car sets are 45 in first, 258 in standard.

I believe that's about 20 fewer seats per train than the GWR sets - perhaps someone knows the exact figures for GWR?

Figures taken from page 160 of the East Coast franchise agreement.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ile/488196/intercity-east-coast-franchise.pdf

Thanks Jimm. The exact info I wanted.

Master29 · 14 Dec 2017

I believe it`s 290 standard and 36 first in GWR 5 car units and 576 standard and 71 first on 9 car.

ainsworth74 · 15 Dec 2017

For discussion about the first IEP to Inverness please see the new thread which can be found here.

tgrb · 15 Dec 2017

I'm on the 10:42(ish) heading to Swansea - I've gone in standard for the first time on a 800 - I've got a table seat with a great view

With the seats yes they are firm but definitely comfortable...

Anyway to my point....

They had a problem opening the doors at Newport and once they got moving there was an announcement from the TM asking the Hitachi engineer to pick up the next (something) call..... have they got an Hitachi engineer on all services??

TM has just walked through talking on his phone about a problem with the rear set... it would seem there are still teething issues!

Dai Corner · 15 Dec 2017

I don't know whether every 800 carries one, but I've heard several stories about Hitachi engineers being contacted via the PA. I think I'd have found money for a more discreet method such as walkie-talkie if I'd been running the project.

JN114 · 15 Dec 2017

tgrb said:
I'm on the 10:42(ish) heading to Swansea - I've gone in standard for the first time on a 800 - I've got a table seat with a great view

With the seats yes they are firm but definitely comfortable...

Anyway to my point....

They had a problem opening the doors at Newport and once they got moving there was an announcement from the TM asking the Hitachi engineer to pick up the next (something) call..... have they got an Hitachi engineer on all services??

TM has just walked through talking on his phone about a problem with the rear set... it would seem there are still teething issues!

Probably ‘IC’ call - that’s the legend on the button for making internal (non-cab) calls on the PA. Customer hosts often use it to talk to each other from various points in the set.

JohnRegular · 15 Dec 2017

On the 1530 Paddington-Weston Super Mare, my first trip on an 800. As everyone else has said the legroom is great and the train feels fast and quiet.

But I just am not a fan of the seats, I fully expected to be a fan of them as I don't mind thinner seats on the whole. My back is killing me and I've not even been sat for an hour! On the other hand I happily sat for 7 hours on a VTEC HST from Aberdeen. I hate getting on the negativity bandwagon but I think I'll sit on a Voyager for 9 hours next time instead.

Sean Emmett · 15 Dec 2017

JohnRegular said:
On the 1530 Paddington-Weston Super Mare, my first trip on an 800. As everyone else has said the legroom is great and the train feels fast and quiet.

I suspect reason its so quiet is that there must be at least 2 engines out. Most gutless performance to date. Only 98 max betw RDG DID and barely 100 to SWI.

Filton Bank · 15 Dec 2017

JN114 said:
Probably ‘IC’ call - that’s the legend on the button for making internal (non-cab) calls on the PA. Customer hosts often use it to talk to each other from various points in the set.

IC calls can also be routed to the driving cab - it depends how long the button is pressed for.

Sean Emmett · 15 Dec 2017

Sean Emmett said:
I suspect reason its so quiet is that there must be at least 2 engines out. Most gutless performance to date. Only 98 max betw RDG DID and barely 100 to SWI.

I was hoping for a pint in the bar on the platform at WSM during the booked 19 minute layover, but by the time we got there it was time to come back...

When I alighted at BRI on the return I confirmed one engine out on each unit (nos 800 006/013).

LunchSociety · 15 Dec 2017

Sean Emmett said:
I suspect reason its so quiet is that there must be at least 2 engines out. Most gutless performance to date. Only 98 max betw RDG DID and barely 100 to SWI.

Sean Emmett said:
When I alighted at BRI on the return I confirmed one engine out on each unit (nos 800 006/013).

Have we heard any suggestions as to why this might be the case? One assumes that this is not a planned "test" but we seem to hear quite often about IEP sets running with at least one engine out. Have these particular MTU engines been used in any other rolling stock?

HainultLoop · 15 Dec 2017

I think 1st is a bit ICE-esque

From what I've seen of pictures, 1st in the 800 seems very similar to Standard in an ICE, seat-wise. I'm still yet to go on one!

43096 · 15 Dec 2017

Sprinter153 said:
At the moment the agreement is one Train Manager per 10-car set. A Ticket Examiner will be rostered to work in the front set. If they are not available an alternative member of staff must be sourced or the unit locked out.

The RMT does not want Customer Hosts being used as the competent person in the front set. To be honest I would rather have my CHs taking charge than a TE who I have no responsibility for. CHs are also briefed extensively on the layout and safety features of the train. TE knowledge is lacking at best.

This is the agreement:

But why is this even necessary? We have had two unit trains with no gangway connection between them for years on the railway - including on GW - with no need for this. There is a very simple solution: driver in front 5, guard in rear 5 = suitably trained staff in each part. This is just another example of the railway disappearing up its own very expensive fundamental orifice.

initiation · 16 Dec 2017

JohnRegular said:
On the 1530 Paddington-Weston Super Mare, my first trip on an 800. As everyone else has said the legroom is great and the train feels fast and quiet.

But I just am not a fan of the seats, I fully expected to be a fan of them as I don't mind thinner seats on the whole. My back is killing me and I've not even been sat for an hour! On the other hand I happily sat for 7 hours on a VTEC HST from Aberdeen. I hate getting on the negativity bandwagon but I think I'll sit on a Voyager for 9 hours next time instead.

How did it cope with the mad rush that is the 1717 from Temple Meads? With 5 coaches I always feared this service would end up standing room only

Sean Emmett · 16 Dec 2017

initiation said:
How did it cope with the mad rush that is the 1717 from Temple Meads? With 5 coaches I always feared this service would end up standing room only

We were 20 mins late. Suspect a fair few were on the stopper that should have followed the IET, but went ahead.

So 20 mins late off Temple Meads and emerged from Flax Bourton Tunnel at around 80 mph.

A few years ago No. 9 was doing 74 there with 9 on. Somehow that felt faster....

Waverleystu · 16 Dec 2017

Does anyone know when the next new class 800 set is due to enter service?

JonathanH · 16 Dec 2017

Waverleystu said:
Does anyone know when the next new class 800 set is due to enter service?

Informed posting on wnxx suggests that 800023 should be accepted on Monday or Tuesday to add to 800005/6/8-15/7/8/20 in service.

There appears to be a gen group 'ietgen' created with workings on groups.io which includes reports of 800s in service.

TT-ONR-NRN · 17 Dec 2017

When are 9 car IETs entering service? Will the 802 9 cars enter service before the 800 ones? I’ve only seen 9 car 802s. No 9 car 800s (GWR)

50031 · 17 Dec 2017

I think 9 car 800s start operating Cheltenham services in June

TT-ONR-NRN · 17 Dec 2017

50031 said:
I think 9 car 800s start operating Cheltenham services in June

Oh ok thanks. So we won’t see 9 car sets to Bristol/South Wales then?

DanNCL · 17 Dec 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
When are 9 car IETs entering service? Will the 802 9 cars enter service before the 800 ones? I’ve only seen 9 car 802s. No 9 car 800s (GWR)

50031 said:
I think 9 car 800s start operating Cheltenham services in June

I'm surprised that the 9 car units don't enter service until June. There are already complete GWR 9 car 800s at Newton Aycliffe.
I personally think the 9 car 800s will be in use before the 802s

50031 · 17 Dec 2017

Someone in the know mentioned previously that 9 cars would initially start Cheltenham services in June but eventually that route would see all 3 combinations of IET (5/9/10) when the enhanced timetable commences. 9 cars will eventually appear on other routes in time I presume

GWR Class 800

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