TOC compensation for helping out in emergencies

As someone noted in today's thread about a person hit at Hemel Hempstead, the WCML has not been having a good time in the recent past. Indeed, there seems to have been at least two serious incidents a week for some time now. For sure, we seem to see "all lines closed" threads on the WCML and ECML far more often than, say, for the MML or, especially, Chiltern.

Chiltern has no overhead to get damaged, of couse, so much less chance of a total shutdown.

But on the WCML, when things go wrong, one of the first instructions to aspiring passengers to Birmingham/Coventry/Wolverhampton is to take Chiltern. Totally logical, of course - but who pays the bill - if one is paid - and how is it worked out?

ISTR reading, probably in here, that the various operators are just expected to 'help out' when ordered (by who, exactly DfT?) when services are stopped on 'parallel' lines. On the surface, that seems ok, but given the number of total stoppages on the WCML it would seem that Chiltern are all to often expected to assist in emergencies - certainly far more often than Virgin WC help out Chiltern. Is there any mechanism in place to compensate Chiltern for this service, seemingly so regularly offered - which, of course, is to the detriment of regular Chiltern customers?

70014IronDuke said:

Is there any mechanism in place to compensate Chiltern for this service, seemingly so regularly offered - which, of course, is to the detriment of regular Chiltern customers?

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And a follow-up question: is there a mechanism in place to compensate regular Chiltern customers for their suffering in case of 'helping out' other operator's passengers?

Whilst I understand the basis of the question it is worth noting that the Chiltern line has had its own issues over the years, with lengthy closures for the Gerrards Cross tunnel collapse, Harbury Tunnel landslip, blockades for track re-doubling Princes Risborough-Bicester North-Aynho Junction, Banbury re-modelling, Cherwell Valley re-signalling, etc.

You never know when the boot is going to be on the other foot...

In short, no.

It is a mutual agreement between the two companies for when CSL2 is declared. Normally a courtesy call will be made to ask, but in most cases (the company PIDD document should tell you) it will be automatic ticket acceptance.

It's a requirement of the Ticketing & Settlement Agreement to which all franchises are party that ticket acceptance in emergencies for up to 48 hours must be allowed on a knock for knock basis without any income claim.

thedbdiboy said:

It's a requirement of the Ticketing & Settlement Agreement to which all franchises are party that ticket acceptance in emergencies for up to 48 hours must be allowed on a knock for knock basis without any income claim.

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Okey doke. Thanks (and to thedbdiboy).
But if I were bidding Chiltern for the Chiltern franchise, I think I'd put in a discount note on this in the next bid, because clearly they are regularly being lumbered with an asymetrical cost here.

70014IronDuke said:

Okey doke. Thanks (and to thedbdiboy).
But if I were bidding Chiltern for the Chiltern franchise, I think I'd put in a discount note on this in the next bid, because clearly they are regularly being lumbered with an asymetrical cost here.

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What are the costs they are being lumbered with?

70014IronDuke said:

... if I were bidding Chiltern for the Chiltern franchise, I think I'd put in a discount note on this in the next bid....

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In that case someone else would probably win it.

Adlington said:

is there a mechanism in place to compensate regular Chiltern customers for their suffering in case of 'helping out' other operator's passengers?

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What kind of suffering are you referring to? Overcrowding? No, when is there ever compensation available for overcrowding?

What hapoens when the ticket acceotance is London Underground and buses and a TOC ?

Starmill said:

What kind of suffering are you referring to?

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The same kind as Chiltern suffers (according to some posters....).

With yet another line closure today, after a fatality, that's 3 days (out of the past 4 weekdays) where the trains have been stopped, ticket acceptance was in place and WCML will have to pay of huge sums in the repayment scheme. It feels like they're currently operating a 'free' service, given how much money they must be having to refund passengers. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same thing every single day from now until New Year - do Virgin WC have a 'limitless' arrangements with other train operators, or will there come a day when they stop accepting tickets on other lines, and everyone just has to wait for their own train line to begin running again?

I am curious about this when there was ticket acceptance on the heathrow connect between Hayes and Heathrow do tfl get paid £6 per passenger riding the 140

70014IronDuke said:

Okey doke. Thanks (and to thedbdiboy).
But if I were bidding Chiltern for the Chiltern franchise, I think I'd put in a discount note on this in the next bid, because clearly they are regularly being lumbered with an asymetrical cost here.

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If anything it could be to Chiltern's advantage! It will draw first time travelers away from Virgin and they may decide to travel on Chiltern more often!

Simon11 said:

If anything it could be to Chiltern's advantage! It will draw first time travelers away from Virgin and they may decide to travel on Chiltern more often!

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I think this can work both ways. The covering TOC should be kept on their toes and ensure that they give the very best customer service during this kind of disruption, to try and bring these customers back next time. For a Euston - Birmingham traveller in the evening peak, it could unfortunately come down to the luck of the draw what train they end up on back from Marylebone.

I’d imagine if a first time passenger managed to get the journey on a fast service on the LHCS and manage to get a seat, they’d certainly look at using it again in the future.

However, a first time traveller could also end up on a 168/3 on the 16:24 stopping most shacks and end up taking nearly 3 hours!

Overall it certainly should help healthy competition.