The driver's view: 'The memory of a rail suicide never leaves you'

Dstock7080 said:

if you have applied the emergency brake/deadman, there isn’t much more a driver can do, looking away is probably the best option if it can be done.

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Getting away from the front of the train might be advised, to prevent injury as per the case at Charlbury mentioned up thread

talltim said:

Getting away from the front of the train might be advised, to prevent injury as per the case at Charlbury mentioned up thread

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Injury isn't usually likely in those cases where you have an opportunity to brake and leave the seat. For a person to already be 'in place' with that much forwarning usually means they are on the track, in which case the impact will be low down and unlikely to cause harm to the occupants of the cab. Victim 'incursion' into the cab is usually via a windscreen, which requires a degree of being airbourne. In turn, that tends to mean a leap or jump, which will come with very little warning. Indeed I understand that the Charfield incident involved falling, rather than jumping. I doubt there was any warning whatsoever. Very nasty.

I'd like to thank all the contributors to this thread. It has been a most interesting and well balanced discussion about a subject which is not talked about in such detail often, if at all. If I may, I'd like to add my story to the table as I think it's important for those who, god willing, have never and will never experience this to hear about things from the horses mouth, but also as in my case for those who have, I have found it very helpful.

I had my fatality while still undertaking my mainline training. Many hours under my belt, so my trainer and I were relaxed and happy on a lovely sunny summer afternoon. Until, while passing through a busy station at 86mph I saw something it took me a while to comprehend and reason what was happening. I saw someone take three big bounds, then they just kept getting closer and closer. There was that noise that I will never, ever forget. My screen shattered and everything instantly slowed. I could see individual shards of glass. My trainer beat me to the Big Red Button and suddenly everything was going at normal speed again. Train in Emergency. Training had kicked in. There followed a surreal couple of hours until I was sitting in the pub with a responsible adult. I didn't stop talking (or drinking, if I'm honest) for the next two weeks. Two days after the event, I was home alone. Comfortable to be as such. Then something odd happened. Because I had wanted this job so much. Because it had taken so long to start my training. Because my training was taking so long, I realised that I may not be able to continue. And I got angry. Then upset. Then I opened a trapdoor in my head which I had never seen before. Just like the programme, "there was something down there". Scared the sh.. out of me. Really did. Slammed the door shut and vowed never to go there again.

Over then next few weeks I had phone counselling, but if I'm honest, my friends were doing me just as good. They needed some counselling when it was all over tho!! I also took time to read about the gentleman I had met under such unfortunate circumstances. I needed to know who he was. And I found out a lot. And I have full and heartfelt sympathy for him. I've forgiven him. He didn't kill himself, the lack of help for his condition killed him.

Now I know what it's like, I can honestly say I would not wish it on my worst enemy, and I do mean that, it's horrible. But, I think it can make or break you. It's made me. I came into the job knowing it was a 50/50 chance. I did a count up of my Depot Hut since I started and had to stop counting. Over half of us. And that's just drivers. It's been good to hear from the others involved. I've met the man who jetwashes the units clean, and it's truely gruesome. And to hear from people who've opened or had their trapdoor opened for them, thank-you. The whole subject is at once Taboo and Morbidly Facinating. Mental health is not a subject to be taken lightly and should be more openly discussed.

Thanks for reading.

Scoggy

I've only been on the receiving end of 2 fatalities. The first one was in the tail end of the mid noughties. It was the train in front of us and we were diverted to Manchester Victoria and had to leg it Piccadilly to get our connection. The 2nd one was on the 21st of December 2012. It took place at Stockport. Anyone who knows the significance of that date will know my theory for why the person did it. BTW the 2nd one was from what I heard so may not be true. But fortunately I have never seen a railway fatality in person.

Has anyone seen the play mentioned in this article?
https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/d3dpqy/what-its-like-dealing-with-railway-suicides

I was out socialising at the weekend with the driver involved in the horrific incident on 20th Nov between Cheltenham and Bristol Parkway, He is a tough cookie and indeed needs to be as this was his 3rd suicide but I would be surprised if he comes back after this one, He told me he wants to though as he loves the job.. He suffered physical injuries and is now scarred for life across his face and was millimetres from being blinded and indeed decapitated and there is no exaggeration in that comment, he is a VERY lucky man.

Thank you to everyone who has shared their experiences on this thread. You are all heroes, in whatever way you've been involved.

I'll leave it at that having thankfully no experience of the thing but I still have an immense respect for those of you who have been involved with these scenarios.

Bad enough being the first manager on site - had several and I know how awful it can be - you just sort of blank it out for the duration of the incident - and am not particularly religious but have some faith and uttered a quiet prayer for the deceased.

Support and counselling excellent I have to say ....not just in my case , but in others I gather.

tonytraynor said:

I was out socialising at the weekend with the driver involved in the horrific incident on 20th Nov between Cheltenham and Bristol Parkway, He is a tough cookie and indeed needs to be as this was his 3rd suicide but I would be surprised if he comes back after this one, He told me he wants to though as he loves the job.. He suffered physical injuries and is now scarred for life across his face and was millimetres from being blinded and indeed decapitated and there is no exaggeration in that comment, he is a VERY lucky man.

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I was not aware of this incident. How did the driver come to suffer serious injuries?

greyman42 said:

I was not aware of this incident. How did the driver come to suffer serious injuries?

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The body came through the windscreen and struck him.

neilb62 said:

The body came through the windscreen and struck him.

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Had the person jumped from a bridge?

greyman42 said:

Had the person jumped from a bridge?

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It could have been a running leap or a jump.

greyman42 said:

Had the person jumped from a bridge?

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As I understand it, it was a railway bridge over a road, with the person jumping from the wall. I'm not sure more detail is really needed though, is it?
It was an horrific incident resulting in serious injury to the driver, the sad death of the person involved, and doubtless great distress to a number of others. Perhaps we should leave discussion it there.

Mathew S said:

As I understand it, it was a railway bridge over a road, with the person jumping from the wall. I'm not sure more detail is really needed though, is it?
It was an horrific incident resulting in serious injury to the driver, the sad death of the person involved, and doubtless great distress to a number of others. Perhaps we should leave discussion it there.

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Well, as the discussion is on the forum, I think people are allowed to discuss it as long as they like.

greyman42 said:

Well, as the discussion is on the forum, I think people are allowed to discuss it as long as they like.

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I think sometimes it's important to remember that this is a public forum. Perhaps it's my training as a journalist/producer, but there's a reason that you rarely see details of suicide methods published online, in the papers, etc. It's because organisations that work with people at risk of suicide tell us that it can actually increase the number of suicides that take place. The Samaritans have some detailed information about this on their website (I don't have it on my phone, but Google 'Samaritans Reporting Suicide' and you'll find it). The gist is that it's best to avoid any detailed description of the exact methods involved in any specific incident, not out of any kind of prurience or desire to be 'PC', but to protect people who may be at risk.

Last thing I want is to stifle what is a valuable discussion, but equally I don't think the details are really necessary or add a great deal.

I quite agree. Sadly, suicide by train has become increasingly common. The more people in mental distress hear of such incidents, the more likely they are to choose this method. That is why platform staff trained to recognise the signs are so vital.

InOban said:

Sadly, suicide by train has become increasingly common. The more people in mental distress hear of such incidents, the more likely they are to choose this method.

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My sincere condolences to all those who have been affected by this sort of thing, and my thanks to those railway staff who have chosen to share their experiences on this thread.

I have a question that may or may not have been covered elsewhere:

For my part I've commuted between medication and sobriety for the last 17 years and have had thoughts about applying to be a driver. Bearing in mind that medical circumstances have to be declared, I've actively wondered if people who suffer from mental illnesses are precluded from ever having a job as a driver?

One of our own members took their life on the railway a few years ago.

RIP 'thefab444', gone but never forgotten.

An interesting and intensely sobering thread.

As a frequent passenger, I've been on four trains now that have been involved in suicide incidents. What has been striking, on each occasion, is how the railway 'family', the emergency services, and concerned members of the public come together to help each other out. I hope this is as much the case as it appears to be from the casual observer's point of view, and I hope it continues to be the case.

Mental illness and suicide prevention are topics that I have reason to care rather a lot about, and I do try to get involved, in a non-pushy way, when it is appropriate to do so. The current advertising campaign, I find excellent.

Which leads me to my question to railway staff: is there anything we can do to help out in these instances, or are we best keeping out the way and helping each other remain patient and calm?

tonytraynor said:

I was out socialising at the weekend with the driver involved in the horrific incident on 20th Nov between Cheltenham and Bristol Parkway, He is a tough cookie and indeed needs to be as this was his 3rd suicide but I would be surprised if he comes back after this one, He told me he wants to though as he loves the job.. He suffered physical injuries and is now scarred for life across his face and was millimetres from being blinded and indeed decapitated and there is no exaggeration in that comment, he is a VERY lucky man.

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Holy S***. Hope he recovers from it. On a side note, why don't trains have bulletproof glass and gangwayed stoch have locking pins?

LOL The Irony said:

Holy S***. Hope he recovers from it. On a side note, why don't trains have bulletproof glass and gangwayed stoch have locking pins?

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Even commercial aircraft windscreens, thinking about the goose vs. 737 situation, don't necessarily have that level of protection. They are, I believe, designed to withstand an impact from an object of similar size/weight to a chicken. Indeed, they are tested with an air powered chicken canon (seriously).
The level of distortion caused by the polycarbonate used in protective 'glass' might also cause issues with visibility. Also worth noting that the material degrades over time when exposed to sunlight, even in the UK, and has to be fully replaced - and it's not cheap - every few years.
All in all, probably not worth doing for the level of expense and hassle that it would create.

I was shown a video of a 390 windscreen mounted vertically and deep frozen. It had a 1Kg iron block fired at it from a gas cannon, the block went straight through the screen but the anti-spalling liner stopped it. I can't imagine a 220/1 screen being any lower spec but of course a human weighs a lot more than 1Kg and has a much larger impact point...

neilb62 said:

I was shown a video of a 390 windscreen mounted vertically and deep frozen. It had a 1Kg iron block fired at it from a gas cannon, the block went straight through the screen but the anti-spalling liner stopped it. I can't imagine a 220/1 screen being any lower spec but of course a human weighs a lot more than 1Kg and has a much larger impact point...

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Lets just say there are a few unhappy people with Bombardier at the moment...

With regard to helping out, a polite "You ok mate Anything I can do?" was declined, but was very much appreciated in my case. Usually, the System has swung into motion by that stage, so as you say, apart from helping each other remain patient and calm there is little to be done.

The station I had my event at has a pretty spot on presence and intervention by staff now. I had cause to spend some time there recently (revisiting old ghosts so to speak) and I was asked a couple of times if I needed help. And I was in uniform. I observed others being asked too, so it wasn't just that.

As alluded to, The Railway Family still exists and is a wonderful thing in times of need. Bunch of piss taking foul mouthed ***** that we are, when needed the bs stops. Truly does. Helped me immensely.

Re; Cab robustness....My three ply windscreen kept its security but was bowed on the inside (hence the shards of glass i talked about). A fact I was very relieved about. Older units with centre inward opening doors just don't have the built in robustness, sadly. Ours have secure locking top and bottom. Unfortunately weight and momentum can override this. Things will slowly improve over time I'm sure.

Mathew S said:

I think sometimes it's important to remember that this is a public forum. Perhaps it's my training as a journalist/producer, but there's a reason that you rarely see details of suicide methods published online, in the papers, etc.

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I can’t help but wonder if the recent spate of sad incidents on the WCML could be in part due to just such a “copy cat” element.

I’m not saying there’s been anything wrong with the reporting, but the mere awareness that these events have happened might well plant the seed into vulnerable peoples’ minds.

Add in the run up to Christmas, horrible weather, poor mental health provision etc and it’s a toxic mix.

221129 said:

Lets just say there are a few unhappy people with Bombardier at the moment...

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There have been ever since the incident I alluded to up-thread. They've had to rebuild more than one cab...

However, there are some events which you simply can't precisely predict, and some where the structure of the cab would be exceedingly unwieldy if it were to offer maximum protection. This could cause a higher rate of incidents such as signal sighting problems, which in turn could theoretically lead to an accident.

Sometimes it's a no-win situation.

This a sobering but necessary thread and the posts by drivers harrowing to read, it's the after effects that many ignore but should be made aware of.

The people who are driven to these desperate acts are at the very end of their limits and therefore have no control over their actions, I think that the people who clear up the scene and then someone has to tell the surviving relatives are heroes.

I was talking to the father of the policeman who recently had to tell the family of fellow officer that their loved one was no longer there. It affected him badly; he was unable to go on duty for a week.

Life is a roller coaster and sometimes we fall off. Help is there but you have to want to take it, I know I have been there and it's not good so we have to look at everything.

aylesbury said:

This a sobering but necessary thread and the posts by drivers harrowing to read, its the after effects that many ignore but should be made aware of.The people who are driven to these desperate acts are at the very end of there limits and therefore have no control over their actions ,I think that the people who clear up the scene and then someone has to tell the surviving relatives are heroes .I was talking to the father of the policeman who recently had to tell the family of fellow officer that their loved one was no longer there ,it affected him badly not being able to go on duty for a week. Life is a roller coaster and sometimes we fall off help is there but you have to want to take it, I know I have been there and its not good so we have to look at everything.

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I disagree. The people who do this do have control of their actions and are responsible for them. They obviously do not have any regard for the people who have to clean the mess up, the driver or the hundreds of passengers who have to suffer their actions. I think you would find that the vast majority of the general public share this view.

greyman42 said:

I disagree. The people who do this do have control of their actions and are responsible for them. They obviously do not have any regard for the people who have to clean the mess up, the driver or the hundreds of passengers who have to suffer their actions. I think you would find that the vast majority of the general public share this view.

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Then you along with the vast majority of the general public understand nothing about suicide, you lucky person. I speak as a driver..