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Virgin East Coast Twitter

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SaveECRewards

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Indeed. The two Virgins could have avoided this a long time ago by adding ‘West Coast’ to one handle... :rolleyes:
There's no excuse now. I could understand at the beginning as Virgin Trains WC sounds like it could be a joke account tweeted live from a train toilet, or perhaps a reference to the Pongdolino. But now Twitter allows longer display names so 'Virgin Trains West Coast' can now be used and 'Virgin Trains EC' can be expanded to 'Virgin Trains East Coast'
 
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deep south

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And as is often the case, the original issue has lost in the "inappropriate language" noise. According to the BBC website, she was informed by the ticket office and platform staff they could sit in first class and pay the weekend supplement; not an unusual statement for Scotland where the 2nd January is a traditional holiday.

Unfortunately the ticket checker disagreed, I can imagine a somewhat strained conversation on both sides at that point. And the passengers then had to decamp with their luggage and try to find seats on a busy train...

If you cannot believe ticket office staff who can you believe...?
 

MG11

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And as is often the case, the original issue has lost in the "inappropriate language" noise. According to the BBC website, she was informed by the ticket office and platform staff they could sit in first class and pay the weekend supplement; not an unusual statement for Scotland where the 2nd January is a traditional holiday.

Unfortunately the ticket checker disagreed, I can imagine a somewhat strained conversation on both sides at that point. And the passengers then had to decamp with their luggage and try to find seats on a busy train...

If you cannot believe ticket office staff who can you believe...?
Out of interest, were they offered the option to upgrade their tickets to First Class Anytime Singles?
 

yorkie

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Out of interest, were they offered the option to upgrade their tickets to First Class Anytime Singles?
I imagine they would, but that's a crazy amount of money

That said, had they paid up, Virgin would have been compelled to refund them under consumer law, given the customer had been advised a cheaper upgrade was available at the ticket office.

No. What they should be apologising for is the TM patronising and rudely fobbing off a paying customer, and then the Twitter operator (a) failing to address her complaint and (b) patronising her again with gendered language ON A PUBLIC FORUM.

This isn’t even basic customer service or basic professionalism, it’s called “acting like an adult in 2018.”
They should be apologising for both. It is quite often I see or hear of Virgin Trains (WC or EC) customers badly; it's the Virgin Trains way.

They are also very quick to block people who correct their mistakes (especially EC)

And a minority of their Guards have a huge huge attitude problem and reject valid tickets and offer disgraceful service if they disagree with customers over a ticketing matter. One of the worst ones on the East Coast was even promoted. Shocking, but consistent with what I've come to expect from them.
The latest tweets are hardly a surprise if you’ve been following this thread, very poor customer service. Like it’s being run by 6th formers
Absolutely.
 
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keith1879

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Pet or love is not gendered language. There used to be a woman used to work in the restaurant car on East Coast services who'd always refer to the regulars (male and female) as pet. She was great, loved her job and always delivered excellent service. Not sure what's happened with her, I've not seen here since the restaurants stopped in 2011.

Although he does say the odd inappropriate thing ^MS is better than most in their social media team. At least he will check things if you ask him rather than guess and make it up like certain others.

Convenient though that the press are making such a big deal of this. Most complaints to VTEC today have been regarding this tweet rather than the fare increases which is what you'd expect from today (even though they shouldn't be a surprise).

"love" is about as gendered as you can get. Men will say it to women .....women will say it to men ....and that's it. I have to say that when ever this sort of thing crops up the ignorance of people who defend this sort of inappropriate familiarity is flabbergasting. Can you not get it into your heads that even if you think you are just being friendly many people don't see it the same way?? You don't need to be servile - or even especially polite .....just professional. There is nothing professional about "love", "pet", "honey", ..... or "pal" or buddy" or any other such terms.
 

DanTrain

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There is nothing professional about "love", "pet", "honey", ..... or "pal" or buddy" or any other such terms.
I'd disagree here, whilst I disile 'honey' (a bit sleazy and wierd to me), 'pet', 'love' and 'duck' are all perfectly normal for me and I don't have a problem. 'Mate' always seems a bit weird when said by those who aren't your 'mate', as those in shops are not. As for 'buddy', try going to Canada, it's all they ever say (and is a little irritating after a while, but not offensive or unprofessional to me).

Part of the problem is we all differ, the use of 'honey' in this instance was clearly wrong, but it largely depends on the tone, 99% of the time these things are said in good humour, so don't cause me a problem (as long as they're not misogynistic of course, as 'honey' could be perceived to be).
 

ChathillMan

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This has been coming a while. It just took the "wrong" customer to try that sort of response with for it to blow up.

I would worry more about the culture at VTEC Twitter Towers that allows them to think that would be ok.
 

yorkie

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..the use of 'honey' in this instance was clearly wrong, but it largely depends on the tone, 99% of the time these things are said in good humour, so don't cause me a problem (as long as they're not misogynistic of course, as 'honey' could be perceived to be).
That's the key.

The lady who made the original tweet has (predictably) had dozens of trolls react by calling her various insults, such as "snowflake" (this is a new insult; I don't think I'd heard of it this time last year), all accusing her of making too much of a big deal about the term "honey" and generally intimidating her and having a go at her.

But they, just as the VTEC tweeter, missed the point: the customer had been mistreated by a Virgin Trains Guard, who not only refused to honour the promise of affordably priced upgrades, but did so in a manner that was rude and completely at odds with what is written in the job specification for a Virgin Trains Guard. The choice of language would probably have been fine, or at least accepted, if it was said in a genuine tone and if the Guard was actually helping the customer and resolving the situation to their satisfaction.

So no, the Twitter trolls are wrong to go on and on about the word "honey"; it was the tone, and the overall mistreatment by the Guard. The VTEC tweeters then put the icing on the cake by being unprofessional and dismissive back.

It's not just the choice of language, it's not just the tone, but it's the FACT that some of their Guards and some of their tweeters do not give a damn about their customers (or at least customers who have a different view on a ticketing matter than they do), and find customers to be a huge inconvenience to the operation of the railway.
This has been coming a while. It just took the "wrong" customer to try that sort of response with for it to blow up.

I would worry more about the culture at VTEC Twitter Towers that allows them to think that would be ok.
The culture is a disgrace. Customers are often mislead and mistreated (e.g. having their contractual rights as per the T&Cs of their ticket refused/denied/rejected), all while being spoken to in an inappropriate way, and if anyone corrects the VTEC twitter staff for providing incorrect information, VTEC block them!
 

Darandio

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There is nothing professional about "love", "pet", "honey", ..... or "pal" or buddy" or any other such terms.

I guess "darling" goes on that list as well.

If the above are all unprofessional then 95% of those employed in customer facing roles in my neck of the woods would be out of a job.
 

Via Bank

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I guess "darling" goes on that list as well.

If the above are all unprofessional then 95% of those employed in customer facing roles in my neck of the woods would be out of a job.
Context is everything. There is a difference between an avuncular barista saying “what are you having, pet?” and a train manager disappointing a customer who’s been led to expect a cheap upgrade, and demanding said customer forks over hundreds of pounds.
 

yorkie

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If the person is being nice then I am unlikely to have any problems with any of the above terms.

But if, as a professional, you are - for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly - embroiled in a dispute with a customer, you need to be careful what tone and language you use.
 

Darandio

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Context is everything. There is a difference between an avuncular barista saying “what are you having, pet?” and a train manager disappointing a customer who’s been led to expect a cheap upgrade, and demanding said customer forks over hundreds of pounds.

If the person is being nice then I am unlikely to have any problems with any of the above terms.

But if, as a professional, you are - for whatever reason, rightly or wrongly - embroiled in a dispute with a customer, you need to be careful what tone and language you use.

Indeed, but the post I had quoted seemed to deem it unprofessional in any context. I disagree.
 

AlterEgo

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Context is everything. There is a difference between an avuncular barista saying “what are you having, pet?” and a train manager disappointing a customer who’s been led to expect a cheap upgrade, and demanding said customer forks over hundreds of pounds.

Exactly. Well put.
 

crehld

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The correct response would have been:- "Sorry if you felt you were addressed in-appropriately, if you wish to make a staff complaint, please email [email protected]."
Agreed. Had this been the response then that would have been the end of the matter (or at least it would have been on its way to being resolved). Virgin would at least give the appearance of taking the matter seriously, would have moved the complaint away from a public forum and would have avoided a public relations backlash.

IMO, 'love','honey','darling' or 'mate/pal' are all in-appropriate terms to address people you don't know. I understand that Virgin likes to be "friends" with customers, but personally, I prefer the good old fashioned 'madam' and 'sir'.
Again agreed. I get there are regional variations for this kind of thing which influence informal interactions, but in a formal interaction (such as between a member of customer facing staff and a paying customer who is dissatisfied) a level of etiquette and politeness is expected - this was drummed into me as a child, and was the first thing I was told when I started a weekend job in Smiths at the weekend and indeed every job I've had I'm a customer facing role. It's not rocket science, and if my 18 year old students can get it right in their interactions with me I'm puzzled as to how anyone else struggles.

I realise social media blurs some of the traditional boundaries of etiquette, but mocking a customer making a complaint or not treating their complaint seriously is simply inappropriate.
 

Class83

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Indeed, it seems to be being overlooked that the passenger boarded a train at Edinburgh on a Bank Holiday. https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/special-offers/travel-savings/travel-in-style-for-less/ their website clearly states that first class upgrades were available on Bank Holidays. The Guard's attitude is really letting himself and the company down, particularly as Virgin (both coasts) are quite happy to offer reduced catering for 3 days last week which weren't Bank Holidays.

If the twitter staff were in Yorkshire I can almost excuse their seemingly glib respose, it's just how people talk there, though Duck and Petal etc are probably more common. Though they probably shouldn't have done it as everything can be misinterpreted on twitter.
 

sheff1

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"love" is about as gendered as you can get. Men will say it to women .....women will say it to men ....and that's it.

I take it you have never been to Sheffield !

Many of the female conductors on the Supertram call everyone, male or female, "love" (or lovey, or darling). Same applies in shops, pubs etc.

Until maybe 10/15 years ago it was also common to hear older male bus drivers call male passengers "love". This is now rare, as the tradition has not passed down the generations but I (as a male) was addressed as love by a male tram conductor only a couple of weeks ago.

The point is, though, that informal and expected verbal use of such terms is quite different to using them in response to a written complaint.
 

Marklund

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Pet or love is not gendered language. There used to be a woman used to work in the restaurant car on East Coast services who'd always refer to the regulars (male and female) as pet. She was great, loved her job and always delivered excellent service. Not sure what's happened with her, I've not seen here since the restaurants stopped in 2011.

You've missed the point there though. Context is everything.

Although he does say the odd inappropriate thing ^MS is better than most in their social media team.
So, has previous and hasn't learned?

At least he will check things if you ask him rather than guess and make it up like certain others.
Isn't that just called doing the job, which was the whole point at the start of the thread?
 

SaveECRewards

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If the twitter staff were in Yorkshire I can almost excuse their seemingly glib respose, it's just how people talk there, though Duck and Petal etc are probably more common. Though they probably shouldn't have done it as everything can be misinterpreted on twitter.

The Twitter team is based in York and a lot of them come down from the north east.

So, has previous and hasn't learned?

Isn't that just called doing the job, which was the whole point at the start of the thread?

They all 'have previous' in that regard. They're encouraged to have the cheeky Virgin style and as you know it doesn't work with everyone. People misjudge sometimes when they need to act deadly serious or whether a lighthearted comment will break the ice.

Although looking up info should be just doing their job, there's so many there that will just make things up and ignore people who try to correct them. At least he makes an effort.
 

_toommm_

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It's all down to regional dialect - having lived in Sheffield and Rotherham for the 18 years I've been alive, 'love', 'darling' and all of the like - 'terms of endearment'; that is, a way to greet someone, just as you would be greeted 'Sir' or 'Madam' in Harrods. However, the pragmatics can completely change if you put emphasis on the term of endearment to make it sound sarcastic, or if it's done online where it's hard to gauge whether the VTEC Twitter team were being sarcastic, or just making light of the situation.

I'd say it's definitely something to be avoided in this context, however I doubt it was used maliciously. I'm sure the person who wrote that on the VTEC Twitter isn't misogynistic, or whatever terms the press have used. It's all been blown out of context and if the original VTEC poster apologised, maybe sprinkle in some compensation and an apology from the original person on the train who called her 'honey' (whether they think they're in the right or not), then this could all have been brushed under the carpet in a day.
 

_toommm_

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That's the key.

The lady who made the original tweet has (predictably) had dozens of trolls react by calling her various insults, such as "snowflake" (this is a new insult; I don't think I'd heard of it this time last year), all accusing her of making too much of a big deal about the term "honey" and generally intimidating her and having a go at her.

Snowflake has come about recently with the massive rise in the noticeable nature of the LGBTQ+ etc. community, with the extremes of this community being highlighted, leading people to coin the term to describe overly-sensitive millennial, particularly those such as myself who are left-field.

Snowflakes are delicate, therefore we are delicate and can be easily broken
 

Marklund

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They all 'have previous' in that regard. They're encouraged to have the cheeky Virgin style and as you know it doesn't work with everyone. People misjudge sometimes when they need to act deadly serious or whether a lighthearted comment will break the ice.

Although looking up info should be just doing their job, there's so many there that will just make things up and ignore people who try to correct them. At least he makes an effort.

Judging by your Twitter comments, you really have misjudged the context.
 

Martin66

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Indeed, it seems to be being overlooked that the passenger boarded a train at Edinburgh on a Bank Holiday. https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/special-offers/travel-savings/travel-in-style-for-less/ their website clearly states that first class upgrades were available on Bank Holidays. The Guard's attitude is really letting himself and the company down, particularly as Virgin (both coasts) are quite happy to offer reduced catering for 3 days last week which weren't Bank Holidays.

If the twitter staff were in Yorkshire I can almost excuse their seemingly glib respose, it's just how people talk there, though Duck and Petal etc are probably more common. Though they probably shouldn't have done it as everything can be misinterpreted on twitter.

As it was a bank holiday in Scotland the first class upgrades should have been available for passengers boarding in Scotland. Why had the management not briefed staff about this? Probably because the incompetent management couldn't be bothered!!
 

boxy321

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Indeed, it seems to be being overlooked that the passenger boarded a train at Edinburgh on a Bank Holiday. https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/special-offers/travel-savings/travel-in-style-for-less/ their website clearly states that first class upgrades were available on Bank Holidays. The Guard's attitude is really letting himself and the company down, particularly as Virgin (both coasts) are quite happy to offer reduced catering for 3 days last week which weren't Bank Holidays.

If the twitter staff were in Yorkshire I can almost excuse their seemingly glib respose, it's just how people talk there, though Duck and Petal etc are probably more common. Though they probably shouldn't have done it as everything can be misinterpreted on twitter.

I noticed the lack of service last week. A friday I believe. There were papers provided but only the plastic coffee cups and the (water) fridges were empty. I'd be upset if I'd paid £850tenthousandandsix quid walk-up for that.
 

whhistle

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the customer had been mistreated by a Virgin Trains Guard, who not only refused to honour the promise of affordably priced upgrades.
While I agree with you, the Guard didn't have to honour anything.

1) Did the customer have proof the Ticket Office person advised her about the fare? Not saying she was a liar, not at all, but in this day and age, there are a whole load of liars there so having some sort of reference is better than not.

2) The Ticket Office person thought it was valid, the Guard decided it wasn't valid. Until a decision is made whether the fare is valid or not on that day, we'll never know who was in the right.

3) Even if the Ticket Office person mis-advised, the company has no legal obligation to allow the upgrade. If they did, surely I could board any train, sit in First Class and claim the Ticket Office person advised me I could upgrade for £1, therefore you must accept it.

The problem with Virgin Trains' social media is it doesn't quite know what it is.
Is it Marketing, or Customer Service. Hard to have both.
Marketing departments will bend over backwards to help customers - they're afraid of someone speaking bad of the company name. Customer Service departments will follow rules and guidelines when responding to a customer.

I can't speak for all TOCs and their structures, but Virgin's Twitter team comes under Marketing rather than Customer Service. It was part of Customer Relations but was split in 2014 into it's own department, headed by a guy who had no/very little training in PR, Marketing or Social Media, whose manager is/was some sort of PA in Marketing.
Thus, you have kiddie responses - but that's the Virgin way. It's funny as I see East Midlands Trains trying to be the same, but a bit more rubbish.

Virgin Trains' social media guidelines stipulate(d) ALL tweets must be responded to. It gets tough on social media operatives when you get some moronic person who keeps going, even though they're trying to get something for nothing.

It's not easy as the social media team don't want to be hated by stations either.
Say if someone tweets they were disallowed into the First Class lounge because it was 5 hours until their train was due to depart. If the rules of the FC lounge say there's a 2 hour limit, then the social media operative either annoys the FC lounge people by over-riding their decision, or disappoints the customer, which could end up in a rubbish situation for them.

I'm all for a bit of a laid back approach but there are much better ways than Virgin's approach. I particularly found London Midlands feed hit a good level.


Indeed, it seems to be being overlooked that the passenger boarded a train at Edinburgh on a Bank Holiday.
Bank Holiday in Scotland perhaps, but not England.
This is the crook of the problem. I'd suggest though that as the train originated in Scotland, whatever holidays they're having should be honoured. If boarding in England, it's not recognised. Messy.
 
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sheff1

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While I agree with you, the Guard didn't have to honour anything.

Are you seriously suggesting that a guard does not have to honour an offer which is prominently promoted on the VTEC website ?

What other promotions do you believe they can refuse to honour ?
 

AlterEgo

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While I agree with you, the Guard didn't have to honour anything.

1) Did the customer have proof the Ticket Office person advised her about the fare? Not saying she was a liar, not at all, but in this day and age, there are a whole load of liars there so having some sort of reference is better than not.

2) The Ticket Office person thought it was valid, the Guard decided it wasn't valid. Until a decision is made whether the fare is valid or not on that day, we'll never know who was in the right.

3) Even if the Ticket Office person mis-advised, the company has no legal obligation to allow the upgrade. If they did, surely I could board any train, sit in First Class and claim the Ticket Office person advised me I could upgrade for £1, therefore you must accept it.

My understanding is that the upgrade offer applied only to Bank holidays in England and therefore the ticket office were incorrect. This ties in with when the reduced menu is on offer.

VTEC were offering a full menu commencing 2nd January and therefore the customer was wrongly advised and the guard was “right”.


Virgin Trains' social media guidelines stipulate(d) ALL tweets must be responded to. It gets tough on social media operatives when you get some moronic person who keeps going, even though they're trying to get something for nothing.

If that really was/is the case then that’s daft. Social media handlers ought to have the latitude to disregard or ignore tweets which do not warrant a response for whatever reason. That might be abuse, trolling, garbage nonsense, spam, and time wasters among other things. The other thing to note is this policy seems to imply the company always has to have the last word. It doesn’t and it shouldn’t. It’s often a good thing to let the customer have the last word, as having the last word essentially helps the customer feel they have discharged their anger or frustration.

It's not easy as the social media team don't want to be hated by stations either.
Say if someone tweets they were disallowed into the First Class lounge because it was 5 hours until their train was due to depart. If the rules of the FC lounge say there's a 2 hour limit, then the social media operative either annoys the FC lounge people by over-riding their decision, or disappoints the customer, which could end up in a rubbish situation for them.

Unless the staff on the ground have made a mistake in fact, then a social media team ought to only exceptionally overrule them. Front line staff are there to represent the company as much as the social media operator. They have the benefit of often being the first to handle a situation and are best placed to use their own discretion as they can “feel” the customer through their voice tone, body language, and so on.

When I used to work the social media desk I rarely overruled front line staff who had upheld rules correctly. I took the view that it was against natural justice for a customer to deal with a member of front line staff and then use me as an appeal body based in a dark office 100 miles away. If ever I did authorise something a staff member refused to, before doing it I would try to contact them and let them know why. This way, I could discuss a solution which hopefully stopped the staff member from losing face or authority. Safety critical staff like train managers should never have their authority over the customers in their care undermined.

I'm all for a bit of a laid back approach but there are much better ways than Virgin's approach. I particularly found London Midlands feed hit a good level.

LM did have a good balance a few years ago, I agree.[/quote]
 

AlterEgo

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Are you seriously suggesting that a guard does not have to honour an offer which is prominently promoted on the VTEC website ?

What other promotions do you believe they can refuse to honour ?

From the VTEC site:

Upgrade to a Festive First Class Ticket – from just £15!
Treat yourself to the comfort of First Class this Christmas – featuring extra legroom, free Wi-Fi, and complimentary food and drinks served at your seat (subject to on-the-day availability).

Upgrades will be available onboard Virgin Trains East Coast services from Saturday 23 December 2017 to Monday 1 January 2018 inclusive, subject to availability. All you need is a valid Standard ticket or rail pass – plus £15 or £25 depending on your journey length. Simply ask the Train Manager when you board and, if seats are available, you’ll be lapping up the luxury in minutes.


This seems pretty clear to me.

However elsewhere the Virgin Weekend Upgrade suggests this:

Can I upgrade on any train?
Yes - as long as you’re travelling on a weekend or Bank Holiday. But if your train is full, upgrades may not be available (sorry)

It’s easy to see where confusion has arisen.

However, the guard is not under any legal obligation to sell the Upgrade. (IANAL)
 
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