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GWR Class 800
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I rode that pair (800006 and 800016) into Paddington on the previous working and think they were on diesel all the way.
class387
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It was the 1152 Paddington to Bristol TM.
TT-ONR-NRN
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Yes, but what units? I’m wondering if some are running fully electric on that stretch and others aren’t. 800008 and 800012 definitely left Reading for Paddington on diesel mode...
59CosG95
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Bear in mind that the electric running of the 800s west of Maidenhead's been delayed due to a faulty signal cable in Sonning Cutting, that was only affected by the electrical interference generated by the IET AC motors. This has now been resolved (as mentioned earlier), and pans up to Didcot begin tomorrow.
That being said, I was at Paddington on Friday evening, and also noticed 800s 006 & 016 entering on diesel...possibly a pan fault?
class387
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No idea - I wasn't recording the units. You can ask on the TOPs Request Thread if you really want to find out.
But I don't think it will be a case of individual units, more the services that they run on if anything.
12.37 Padd to Swansea (Class 800 working) cancelled today "due to a problem with the on-board safety systems"
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C50045/2018/01/07/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C50045/2018/01/07/advanced
D1009
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I've heard a rumour there are a few drivers who are passed out on 800s in diesel mode only.
59CosG95
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The 800s *should* be cleared for AC running as far as Moreton Cutting/Didcot now.
D365
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Yep, that tallies with what I was expecting.
Railperf
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Any reports on electric/diesel running today? Did the 800's run electric between Paddington and Didcot as planned?
D1009
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Sadly, the service has been reduced as the result of a person hit by a train at Slough station, which has been regarded as suspicious. Thoughts are with all those involved.
As a result there have been very few IET workings today.
There was an IET running into Paddington this morning at about 0700 with diesel engines running. Didn't notice which one, was possibly operating 5C02 from North Pole http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C58946/2018/01/09/advanced .
[begin off topic paragraph]I had just arrived on an HST, 1L01 arriving 32L thanks to “fault with the signalling system at London Paddington”. Hey ho. At least I made it across Didcot in time to catch it today (albeit with running and only just), since 2L07 from Oxford was “only” 3 3/4 minutes late arriving there. Often (check recenttraintimes!) it's sufficiently late that the connection is unachievable. Sigh. At least 1L01 had a well-stocked buffet car, something which we must clearly enjoy while it lasts! But I digress.[end off topic paragraph]
Back on topic, somebody mentioned that some drivers are only cleared to operate them in diesel mode — I guess that might be why it was burning oil otherwise needlessly. I suppose the arrival of the new trains must have come as a surprise to GWR management. Perhaps someone forgot to notify them that they were being introduced — otherwise of course sufficient staff would have been trained to operate them before their introduction.
Paddington's turning gradually into a much more tranquil place than it used to be … mainly thanks to the 387s so far.
[begin off topic paragraph]I had just arrived on an HST, 1L01 arriving 32L thanks to “fault with the signalling system at London Paddington”. Hey ho. At least I made it across Didcot in time to catch it today (albeit with running and only just), since 2L07 from Oxford was “only” 3 3/4 minutes late arriving there. Often (check recenttraintimes!) it's sufficiently late that the connection is unachievable. Sigh. At least 1L01 had a well-stocked buffet car, something which we must clearly enjoy while it lasts! But I digress.[end off topic paragraph]
Back on topic, somebody mentioned that some drivers are only cleared to operate them in diesel mode — I guess that might be why it was burning oil otherwise needlessly. I suppose the arrival of the new trains must have come as a surprise to GWR management. Perhaps someone forgot to notify them that they were being introduced — otherwise of course sufficient staff would have been trained to operate them before their introduction.
Paddington's turning gradually into a much more tranquil place than it used to be … mainly thanks to the 387s so far.
TwistedMentat
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On my way back from lunch today I caught an 800 approaching Reading with the Pantograph up. So it looks like they're now operating on overhead through to Didcot.
Training could only commence once units were handed over to GWR; which was 5(?) weeks before being introduced. The original original plan had been for 9 months of driver training and mileage accumulation (hence the Paddington - Gloucester New Yard paths in the system for most of last year) before introduction.
The units are now required to work services - there is not sufficient HST sets to cover for missing IETs. Training has suffered as a result.
Bessie
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How long does driver training take? 9 month seems excessive. I assume that as they are bi-mode it's a little more complex than an HST. I'm just an enthusiast so apart from sim games I have no expert knowledge on how difficult these things are but it can't be that complex or am I missing something 
It won't take 9 months to train a singular driver, at most it'd take a couple of weeks I'd have thought. The 9 months would have allowed them to train up enough staff to run the IEP service fully, with minimal impact on day to day services whilst the training is going on. You could train everyone up to get the IEP service operating properly, but you would decimate the service by doing so, or you can spread it out over a number of months, taking a few people off each week to do it, allowing you to run the existing service as normal
Railperf
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Getting back to performance in diesel mode...the Cotswold trips are starting to highlight a lack of installed power too. Despite a mere 75mph speed limit, IET's struggle to accelerate on steep grades and cannot keep up with HST's performance on that line either. I've seen data that shows how an IET streaks away from a station stop to gain a 25 second advantage, but over 45mph on a rising 1 in 100 gradient cannot accelerate quickly enough to linespeed. Eventually overtaken by the HST which then establishes a 12 second lead within a few miles of the station start. These units really are toothless in Diesel mode unless linespeeds are no more than 50 or 60mph!! That's progress!
Is there actually any data available on whether the units are actually being driven 'to the limit' at the moment?
Agent_Squash
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I don't think it will be long until the engines on the 800s are 'demuzzled' and running at their full 940kW rating.
I think the Railway Performance Society have gathered some fairly hard hitting data although you may need to be a member to see it in full.
How long does driver training take? 9 month seems excessive. I assume that as they are bi-mode it's a little more complex than an HST. I'm just an enthusiast so apart from sim games I have no expert knowledge on how difficult these things are but it can't be that complex or am I missing something
As I understand it, alongside learning a new class, which for a driver already operating Diesel Multiple Units will be some degree of conversion course, if they additionally need to learn Electric traction handling, this is more like returning to driving school. Think of a road driver that has only ever known Automatic cars learning to drive manual cars and you are starting to get the idea.
jyte
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There was a graph in RAIL I saw provided by the RPS that suggested 800s were capping out at about 120mph on the flat, less than 115mph on a 1 in 100 up and could only reach line-speed on a downhill gradient.
11 miles out of Paddington, an 800 under the wires would have been at line speed for some time, a HST would be at about 118mph but a 800 on diesel would be about 105mph.
The 800s under AC were also negatively impacted by the 50mph PSR out of paddington and noticeably badly by the 100mph PSR, it looks like the 800s could get up to 125mph a mile earlier if the 125mph limit was moved closed to Paddington.
If anyone wants a screenshot I can provide
11 miles out of Paddington, an 800 under the wires would have been at line speed for some time, a HST would be at about 118mph but a 800 on diesel would be about 105mph.
The 800s under AC were also negatively impacted by the 50mph PSR out of paddington and noticeably badly by the 100mph PSR, it looks like the 800s could get up to 125mph a mile earlier if the 125mph limit was moved closed to Paddington.
If anyone wants a screenshot I can provide
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Let's try an analogy: I hear there's a BMW that can do 155mph top speed.
However, I've never seen one of these cars doing more than about 80 or 90mph on the M4.
Do we conclude a) no-one is driving them faster than 90mph on the M4, or b) they can't actually do 155 at all, and 90 is the absolute max?
However, I've never seen one of these cars doing more than about 80 or 90mph on the M4.
Do we conclude a) no-one is driving them faster than 90mph on the M4, or b) they can't actually do 155 at all, and 90 is the absolute max?
jyte
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I hear that there's a place called Leeds, but as I've never been there, it obviously doesn't exist.
If your issue is with the RPS data showing the 800s running slowly on diesel (about 10mph slower than HSTs), apparently the data was collated from 14 trips. I might have dropped physics at AS-level, but 14 repeats is pretty good to get an average from what I remember.
The performance of an 800 under the wires is miles ahead (pardon the pun) of an HST, but on diesel their performance is lacking - hopefully this will force electrification to 're-start' in the areas it was postponed or cancelled.
Well, quite. And those 14 trips on an 800 prove it was slower than an HST over those trips...
Now, going back to my original question, has any one asked if GWR or Hitachi or whoever if they are even *trying* to match the HST speeds on diesel?
Clarence Yard
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They have been and are at their 700kw (940hp) rating. The problem is that the engines have been de tuned electronically to minimise engine wear so the full 700kw isn’t available throughout the operating speed range. The exact nature of what has been done is the subject of ongoing debate between GWR, the DfT and Hitachi/Agility.
So why does this have to be repeated again and again, that they have not been set to max possible performance throughout the range, and frankly who cares if they struggle to quite get to 125mph on Diesel because that was not required in the specification, but the fact they can get to near 125mph and get Network Rail out of mire is quite impressive in my view.
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ash39
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That's not a great or particularly relevant analogy.
I'm sure some drivers of 155mph capable cars (brand is irrelevant) would travel at 155mph if it was safe and legal, but it isn't, so they don't.
The IET is a new train replacing a 40 year old one, and it struggles to match the performance on diesel. Not Hitachis fault, just badly specified.
I'm struggling to see how the analogy works.
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