• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Starting over: a redesigned UK rail network

Status
Not open for further replies.

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,383
Location
The UK
(Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love Crayons)

Coldplay famously sang that they were just guessing at numbers and figures. Well, this thread is about pulling the science apart. And, yes, nobody said it was easy. We're going back to the start.

Welcome to Britain. A small island of the coast of Europe. Population: about 66 million. But there's one catch.

You see, Beeching, Marples and co. didn't hold back when they enacted their 'plan' for the railways in the 1960s. They reduced the railway network massively in its scope. And Serpell did for the rest in the 1980s. In fact, all the mainlines were shut down, the alignments obliterated. All that remain are the subway networks in London, Newcastle and Glasgow.

For years, people have campaigned for the reopening of the railways. Finally, the government has buckled. They've decided to commission a whole new railway network for the UK. Someone's been put in charge of planning it all.

And that person is you. It's your job to create the UK's rail network. Where would you put your mainlines and branch lines? Which towns would you connect, which cities would you link together? Would you do things any differently?

Obviously, this is all completely theoretical - and there's no suggestion that Beeching or Serpell would ever have closed all the railways. Your job is to design the new network.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AngusH

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2012
Messages
551
Biggest and most profitable city pairs first?

London to Birmingham?
London to Manchester?
Or build the channel tunnel and link to Paris.

Skip branch lines entirely.

Everything absolutely straight as possible, very large radius curves and built for 250 mph.

Kind of like the new high speed rail systems built in China and various asian countries.

Run it like an airline though, 100% reservations, no standing, closed in platforms with doors, etc.

edit: and 1 station per city...
 

DasLunatic

Member
Joined
11 May 2015
Messages
696
Well, from a fresh start, we'd need to start with a simple, baseline network. I'd start by building a London superstation, with 60 platforms in a circular arrangement - six for each of the ten service groups:
Anglia - largely mirrors the real-world GEML, with stations at Ilford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss and Norwich.
Anglia Commuter - a hybrid between the current C2C and Crossrail, operating slower services to Colchester via Southend - stations at Canary Wharf, London City Airport (which in this alternate world has subsumed the dock and acts as a budget airport), Barking, Rainham, Grays, Basildon, Wickford, South Woodham Ferrers, Maldon, Tiptree, Marks Tey and Colchester. 100mph linespeed.
Kent - operating the commuter lines from Kent. Stations at Dartford, Gravesend, Chatham (Medway Parkway), Maidstone, Ashford, Folkestone and Dover.
Hampshire - services to the South Coast. Stations at Croydon, Guildford, Alton, Winchester, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and Weymouth.
Devon and Cornwall - services to the far reaches of the country. Stations at Slough, Bracknell, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, Blandford Forum, Yeovil, Chard, Honiton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth, Bodmin, Truro and Penzance.
Wales - services to Wales. Stations at Slough, Reading, Newbury, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath, Bristol, Newport, Cardiff, Bridgend and Swansea
Lancaster - services to the North West and Scotland. Stations at Watford, High Wycombe, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke, Crewe, Northwich, Warrington, Wigan, Preston, Lancaster, Kendal, Penrith, Carlisle, Dumfries, Kilmarnock, Glasgow, Stirling, Perth and Dundee.
Northamptonshire - the slower, commuter services connecting to Coventry on the Lancaster services. Stations at Edgware, Watford, St Albans, Luton, Leighton Buzzard, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Rugby and Coventry.
Yorkshire - Services to Yorkshire, mirroring the Midland Mainline. Stations at Luton, Bedford, Kettering, Leicester, Loughborough, Nottingham, Mansfield, Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield, Leeds and York.
Lothian - largely a mirror of the current WAML and ECML. Stations at Stansted Airport, Cambridge, Peterborough, Grantham, Lincoln, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle, Berwick upon Tweed, Dunbar, Edinburgh, Dunfermline, Perth and Dundee.

All of the services will operate on mid to highspeed electrified lines, running at a maximum speed of 150mph (about 240kmph). The stock will be double deck for maximum capacity.

In addition to this, there will also be an outer London circular railway, maintaining an average distance of 30 miles outside the capital. This will operate a maximum speed of 100mph.

Other large cities, such as Manchester, will have developed their own suburban railway networks and metros, and as such, are not the focus.

Ticketing would be much simplified in this universe, considering most major services operate from the London Superterminus. A flat rate of 40p per mile travelled, or 60p in First Class. And it'd all be controlled by one national entity.
 

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,367
Location
Liverpool
Well, from a fresh start, we'd need to start with a simple, baseline network. I'd start by building a London superstation, with 60 platforms in a circular arrangement - six for each of the ten service groups:
Anglia - largely mirrors the real-world GEML, with stations at Ilford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss and Norwich.
Anglia Commuter - a hybrid between the current C2C and Crossrail, operating slower services to Colchester via Southend - stations at Canary Wharf, London City Airport (which in this alternate world has subsumed the dock and acts as a budget airport), Barking, Rainham, Grays, Basildon, Wickford, South Woodham Ferrers, Maldon, Tiptree, Marks Tey and Colchester. 100mph linespeed.
Kent - operating the commuter lines from Kent. Stations at Dartford, Gravesend, Chatham (Medway Parkway), Maidstone, Ashford, Folkestone and Dover.
Hampshire - services to the South Coast. Stations at Croydon, Guildford, Alton, Winchester, Southampton, Brockenhurst, Bournemouth and Weymouth.
Devon and Cornwall - services to the far reaches of the country. Stations at Slough, Bracknell, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, Blandford Forum, Yeovil, Chard, Honiton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth, Bodmin, Truro and Penzance.
Wales - services to Wales. Stations at Slough, Reading, Newbury, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath, Bristol, Newport, Cardiff, Bridgend and Swansea
Lancaster - services to the North West and Scotland. Stations at Watford, High Wycombe, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke, Crewe, Northwich, Warrington, Wigan, Preston, Lancaster, Kendal, Penrith, Carlisle, Dumfries, Kilmarnock, Glasgow, Stirling, Perth and Dundee.
Northamptonshire - the slower, commuter services connecting to Coventry on the Lancaster services. Stations at Edgware, Watford, St Albans, Luton, Leighton Buzzard, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Rugby and Coventry.
Yorkshire - Services to Yorkshire, mirroring the Midland Mainline. Stations at Luton, Bedford, Kettering, Leicester, Loughborough, Nottingham, Mansfield, Sheffield, Barnsley, Wakefield, Leeds and York.
Lothian - largely a mirror of the current WAML and ECML. Stations at Stansted Airport, Cambridge, Peterborough, Grantham, Lincoln, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Sunderland, Newcastle, Berwick upon Tweed, Dunbar, Edinburgh, Dunfermline, Perth and Dundee.

All of the services will operate on mid to highspeed electrified lines, running at a maximum speed of 150mph (about 240kmph). The stock will be double deck for maximum capacity.

In addition to this, there will also be an outer London circular railway, maintaining an average distance of 30 miles outside the capital. This will operate a maximum speed of 100mph.

Other large cities, such as Manchester, will have developed their own suburban railway networks and metros, and as such, are not the focus.

Ticketing would be much simplified in this universe, considering most major services operate from the London Superterminus. A flat rate of 40p per mile travelled, or 60p in First Class. And it'd all be controlled by one national entity.
Northwich on there but not Liverpool or Manchester? Everything focused on the bottom right hand corner of the country?
 

fowler9

Established Member
Joined
29 Oct 2013
Messages
8,367
Location
Liverpool
you’ve practically just doubled the cost of a return to Manchester and tripled the cost of a return to Birmingham
No trains going to Manchester anyway. Blandford Forum gets a 150mph connection to London though. Just in case all the squaddies need to get to the capital quickly I guess.
 

theageofthetra

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
3,504
Biggest and most profitable city pairs first?

London to Birmingham?
London to Manchester?
Or build the channel tunnel and link to Paris.

Skip branch lines entirely.

Everything absolutely straight as possible, very large radius curves and built for 250 mph.

Kind of like the new high speed rail systems built in China and various asian countries.

Run it like an airline though, 100% reservations, no standing, closed in platforms with doors, etc.

edit: and 1 station per city...
Unlike most Chinese high speed stations have it actually in the city centre.
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,738
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
Long before I'd reach for the Crayolas, I'd ask who needs this transport system and why. I would then ask what is the best way to finance it? Privately as a for-profit system, or publically as a wider infrastructural and economic project?
 

DanTrain

Member
Joined
9 Jul 2017
Messages
753
Location
Sheffield
Personally, I’d go either for a London superterminun or for Heathrow style pods between stations in their current positions.
  • Firstly, I’d scrap what I consider to be the badly routed WCML and ECML. Instead, have 2 high speed lines:
    • EC: London - Leicester- Nottingham - Sheffield - Leeds - York - Newcastle - Edinburgh.
    • WC: London - Birmingham- Manchester - Preston - Glasgow (with a Brum - Liverpool/Birkenhead spur)
  • A ECML routes line would pick up London - Hull through Cambridge - Peterbrough - Grantham - Lincoln - Scunthorpe
  • Upgrade the GWML and GEML, roughly leaving them be.
  • A new fast line to the south-west, possibly along the SWR route to Exeter.
  • Transpennine Highspeed:
    • Liverpool - Manchester - Leeds - Hull
    • Liverpool - Manchester - Sheffield - Notts - Peterbrough - Norwich/Cambs
  • Leave XC route as is but make it high speed

The rest would largely be covered by existing (upgraded) lines, with 90% OHLE (everywhere except very scenic lines) and all cities with their own commuter rail/metro/tram.

All bus/tram/metro/rail tickets made universal, with far simplified ticketing, perhaps a national oyster-style system or such-like, with transparent, easy pricing. Also, scrap 1st on everything except long distance express services.
 

TBY-Paul

Member
Joined
9 Feb 2013
Messages
329
Backtrack....are you assuming that the country developed with population centres as they are today without the railways?
I think this is the most valid point.

Once you start to analyse things you realise that some places that are important towns & Cities in the present day are only important because of railways. Does anyone seriously think that somewhere like York would have developed into it's present day status (as an important rail junction). Without railways York would just be a small place with a Minister/Cathedral, Likewise Darlington wouldn't be the main ECML railhead for Teesside.

Here in the North East, the main towns would be Newcastle, Sunderland & Middlesbrough (being River Ports). I would also go as far as to say that with railways making some towns more important than they would ordinarily be, the road network would also have developed differently, rather than the present A1(M)-A1 alignment that runs through the North East being the main route, an alignment that follows the Present A19 would have developed into the main route through the Area. Logic follows , If that was the case, then any new rail routes starting from scratch would most likely be something that links Hull, Leeds,Middlesbrough, Sunderland & Newcastle together. Places like York & Darlington would be served by branch lines.

If anything, for me, this thread just highlights what a significant role railways have had in the way the country has developed. In some places it has helped, in others it has hindered. It's one of the reasons I was so looking forward to HS2 being developed as a new route through the North East, but we seam to have fallen back into a default position of anything north of Leeds meaning the present ECML route is good enough for the North East.
 

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,383
Location
The UK
I think this is the most valid point.

Once you start to analyse things you realise that some places that are important towns & Cities in the present day are only important because of railways. Does anyone seriously think that somewhere like York would have developed into it's present day status (as an important rail junction). Without railways York would just be a small place with a Minister/Cathedral, Likewise Darlington wouldn't be the main ECML railhead for Teesside.

Here in the North East, the main towns would be Newcastle, Sunderland & Middlesbrough (being River Ports). I would also go as far as to say that with railways making some towns more important than they would ordinarily be, the road network would also have developed differently, rather than the present A1(M)-A1 alignment that runs through the North East being the main route, an alignment that follows the Present A19 would have developed into the main route through the Area. Logic follows , If that was the case, then any new rail routes starting from scratch would most likely be something that links Hull, Leeds,Middlesbrough, Sunderland & Newcastle together. Places like York & Darlington would be served by branch lines.

If anything, for me, this thread just highlights what a significant role railways have had in the way the country has developed. In some places it has helped, in others it has hindered. It's one of the reasons I was so looking forward to HS2 being developed as a new route through the North East, but we seam to have fallen back into a default position of anything north of Leeds meaning the present ECML route is good enough for the North East.
Very true.

This is, however, a totally theoretical thread, and I've addressed this in my opening post.
 

3141

Established Member
Joined
1 Apr 2012
Messages
1,772
Location
Whitchurch, Hampshire
Very true.

This is, however, a totally theoretical thread, and I've addressed this in my opening post.

You have, but I find it difficult to engage with a theory that says envisages the population of today, and railways elsewhere in the world, but almost none here. And why has the government decided to build railways now? To reduce pollution, you suggest, but actually they'd be putting resources into the development of electric road traction and computerised autonomous road vehicles formed into road trains.

Railways are so fundamental to the way Britain developed during (roughly) 1830 - 1970 that it's almost impossible to imagine having got to where we are today by a railway-less route. A slightly less inconceivable approach would be to imagine where we might have got to without them. The early experiments with steam road coaches could have developed successfully in the 1840s, the improvements to roads introduced by Telford and Macadam would have been taken forward by others, more electrical engineers would have built more quickly on the work of Faraday. While I'm rewriting history I'll have a new supercity roughly where Manchester is, which being at the centre of Britain's developing economy becomes the capital instead of London, and several ship canals constructed from the 1850s onwards.

With the Confederate States having won the American Civil War, France under Napoleon III defeating Prussia in 1870 and establishing a dynasty that's still there today, and a few other minor modifications I haven't yet finalised it's a very different world from the one we know, and I just hope that Dan Dare will still have been around to foil the Treen invasion from Venus in 1998.
 

AngusH

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2012
Messages
551
What if Ernest Marples had appointed someone other than Beeching in 1961. That person deciding to simply to close and build over all of the railways completely in 1961?

We still have the concept of a total rebuild, but it allows the railways to have existed.
 

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,383
Location
The UK
What am I allowed to demolish to build my stations, depots and lines?
Are there any other planning restrictions, such as Green Belts?
Not really, no.

What if Ernest Marples had appointed someone other than Beeching in 1961. That person deciding to simply to close and build over all of the railways completely in 1961?

We still have the concept of a total rebuild, but it allows the railways to have existed.
If that wouldn't be too outlandish...I've change it to that.
 
Last edited:

A Challenge

Established Member
Joined
24 Sep 2016
Messages
2,823
i have to say I prefer this new idea! But it is going to require some thought...
 

AngusH

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2012
Messages
551
I really liked the alternative map of the underground though.
Any chance you could repost it?
 

AngusH

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2012
Messages
551
Also, do you think the new plan would be more commuter or more intercity?
I'm not sure where the government would want the first works to go? Or is it both?
 

LexyBoy

Established Member
Fares Advisor
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
4,478
Location
North of the rivers
I'd start with the road network - make driving seen as a privelige rather than a right. Compulsory speed checks, way more red light cameras and disqualification rather than some points or a twenty quid fine after being involved in 2+ potentially fatal incidents.

With 10 to 20% of the population previously reliant on cars now needing decent public transport I think we'd see some serious investment. Of course it's never going to happen because the convenience of driving is such an absolute undeniable right in the eyes of enough people that it overrides almost everything.

Ps: yes I did read the OP. This is my reply, if I could do 'anything'
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,459
With 10 to 20% of the population previously reliant on cars now needing decent public transport I think we'd see some serious investment. Of course it's never going to happen because the convenience of driving is such an absolute undeniable right in the eyes of enough people that it overrides almost everything.

If you could sort out EWR once and for all, with a decent interchange at St Neots or Sandy, I would gladly give up driving in a hearbeat. Travelling to London or up North is fine from my location, but westward connections are non-existent.
 

Abpj17

Member
Joined
5 Jul 2014
Messages
1,007
Without railways York would just be a small place with a Minister/Cathedral

Railways came pretty late to the game. Waterways and roman roads were driving population centres for hundreds of years before that. Railways have played an important role but not the only role.
 

backontrack

Established Member
Joined
2 Feb 2014
Messages
6,383
Location
The UK
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/1/edit?mid=1GewozczAuz2EL-ZUveizAT8M-0FQhJ_P&ll=54.32890558296637,-9.201393141504013&z=6

(Commuter lines entirely within the M25 generally omitted.)

Here's a key.

There would be nine or so routes operating with Mainline branding.

Paddington Mainline - operates out of a station at London Paddington. A three-pronged route which has major stations at Heathrow, Slough, Reading, Didcot, Swindon, Cirencester, Gloucester, Cheltenham, Worcester, Bristol Parkway, Newport, Cardiff, Bridgend, Port Talbot, Swansea, Bristol, Weston-Super-Mare, Bridgwater, Taunton and Exeter. Most Swansea services would continue to The Mumbles via the University.

Waterloo Mainline - operates out of a station at London Waterloo. Once again, a three-pronged route; major stations at Woking, Guildford, Haslemere, Petersfield, Waterlooville, Horndean, Fratton, Portsmouth, Aldershot, Farnham, Winchester, Southampton Airport Parkway, Southampton, Christchurch, Poole, Wareham, Dorchester, Weymouth, Basingstoke, Andover, Salisbury, Yeovil, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Torquay, Paignton, Brixham, Dartmouth, Plymouth, St Austell, Truro and Penzance.

Victoria Mainline - operates out of a station at London Victoria. Two main branches, one with branches coming off it; major stations at Croydon, Redhill, Gatwick Airport, Crawley, Horsham, Burgess Hill, Hurstpierpoint, Petworth, Steyning, Worthing, Hassocks, Brighton, Beckenham, Bromley, Orpington, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Tunbridge Wells and Hastings.

Kent Mainline - operates out of a station at the south end of London Bridge. Two main routes, with one branch. Major stations at Greenwich, Bexleyheath, Dartford, Gravesend, Rochester, Chatham, Gillingham, Sittingbourne, Faversham, Canterbury, Whitstable, Herne Bay, Margate, Ramsgate, Lewisham, Bromley, Sidcup, Swanley, Snodland, Aylesford, Maidstone, Charing, Ashford, Hythe, Folkestone and Dover.

Aldgate Mainline - operates out of a station in London near Brick Lane and Commercial Street to the north of Aldgate East. Serves Whitechapel, Limehouse, Canary Wharf, The O2, City Airport (for ExCel and UEL), Rainham, Purfleet, Lakeside and Chafford Hundred, Grays, Tilbury, Chadwell St Mary, East Tilbury, Stanford-le-Hope, Corringham, Canvey Island, QMUL, West Ham, Barking, Dagenham, Upminster, Laindon, Basildon, Pitsea, South Benfleet, Hadleigh, Leigh-on-Sea, Chalkwell, Westcliff-on-Sea, Southend-on-Sea, Twerp International and Shoeburyness.

Great Eastern Mainline - operates out of a station in London at the north end of Commercial Street, near the junction of the A10. Two main lines. Major stations at Stratford, Romford, Brentwood, Chelmsford, Witham, Tiptree, Colchester, Manningtree, Harwich International, Harwich Dovercourt, Harwich Head, Ipswich, Stowmarket, Diss, Norwich, Hackney Central, Tottenham Hale, White Hart Lane, Enfield East, Waltham Cross, Hoddesdon, Harlow, Bishop's Stortford, Stansted Airport, Saffron Walden, Whittlesford & Sawston, Shelford and Cambridge.

GNER Mainline - operates out of a station at London King's Cross. Major stations at Finsbury Park, Barnet, Potter's Bar, Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City, Knebworth, Stevenage, Hitchin, Biggleswade, Sandy, St Neots, Godmanchester, Huntingdon, Yaxley, Peterborough, Stamford, Grantham and Newark Northgate. From Peterborough and Newark, many services continue to Connect destinations, such as Lincoln, Mansfield, Boston, Grimsby, Wisbech, Grantham, Nottingham, Doncaster, Selby and York.

Northern Mainline - operates out of a station at London St Pancras. Major stations at Camden, Edgware, St Albans, Luton Airport Parkway, Bedford, Dunstable, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Market Harborough, Kibworth, Oadby, Leicester, Loughborough, Long Eaton, Borrowash, Derby, Ilkeston, Alfreton, West Bridgford, Nottingham, Hucknall, Mansfield, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Stocksbridge, Penistone, Stalybridge, Ashton-under-Lyne, Manchester, Rotherham, Doncaster, Dunscroft, Thorne South, Crowle, Scunthorpe, Brigg, Immingham, Grimsby, Cleethorpes, Thorne North, Goole, Brough, Hessle, Hull, Barnsley, Wakefield, Leeds, Tadcaster, York, Thirsk, Northallerton, Yarm, Thornaby, Middlesbrough, Redcar, Stockton, Billingham, Hartlepool, Peterlee, Sunderland, South Hylton, Washington, South Shields, Tynemouth, Blyth, Ashington, Widdrington, Newton Aycliffe, Durham, Chester-le-Street, Birtley, Gateshead, Newcastle, Cramlington, Morpeth, Warkworth, Alnwick, Berwick, Dunbar, Haddington, Tranent, Musselburgh, Edinburgh, Haymarket, Kirkliston, Linlithgow, Falkirk, Croy, Lenzie and Glasgow.

Northwestern Mainline - operates out of a station at London Euston. Major stations at Wembley Stadium, Watford, Hemel Hempstead, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Coventry, Birmingham International, Solihull, Birmingham, Smethwick, West Bromwich, Wednesbury, Bilston, Wolverhampton, Telford, Wellington, Shrewsbury, Handsworth, Walsall, Cannock, Nuneaton, Atherstone, Tamworth, Lichfield, Stafford, Stone, The Britannia, Stoke, Hanley, Macclesfield, Stockport, Manchester, Salford, Swinton, Farnworth, Bolton, Horwich, Newcastle-under-Lyme, Crewe, Chester, Deeside, Flint, Holywell, Prestatyn, Rhyl, Colwyn Bay, Llandudno Junction, Conwy, Bangor, Holyhead, Great Sutton, Birkenhead, Northwich, Runcorn, Widnes, Halewood, Liverpool, Warrington, Newton-le-Willows, Ashton-in-Makerfield, Wigan, Chorley, Preston, Fulwood, Garstang, Galgate, Lancaster, Carnforth, Milnthorpe, Kendal, Penrith, Carlisle, Gretna, Lockerbie, Moffat, Symington, Thankerton, Livingston East, Broxburn, Ratho and Newbridge, Haymarket, Edinburgh, Lanark, Motherwell, Hamilton, Uddingston, Cambuslang, Rutherglen, Glasgow, Whifflet, Coatbridge, Cumbernauld, Bonnybridge, Larbert, Bannockburn, Stirling, Bridge of Allan, Dunblane, Auchterarder and Perth.

Chiltern Mainline - operates out of a station at London Marylebone. Serves Ruislip, Gerrard's Cross, Beaconsfield, High Wycombe, Princes Risborough, Thame, Wheatley, Cowley and Oxford.

Midland Mainline - operates between Wolverhampton and Nottingham via Bilston, Wednesbury, West Bromwich, Handsworth, Birmingham, Solihull, Birmingham International, Coventry, Rugby, Lutterworth, Wigston, Leicester, Mountsorrel, Quorn, Loughborough, East Leake, Ruddington and West Bridgford.

TransPennine Mainline - operates between Edinburgh/Alnwick/Newcastle/Redcar/Scarborough/Hull and Manchester Airport/Liverpool via York, Goole, Castleford, Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Oldham, Manchester and Warrington.

Coast to Coast Mainline - operates between Redcar and Whitehaven via South Bank, Middlesbrough, Thornaby, Darlington, Piercebridge, Barnard Castle, Bowes, Barras, Brough, Appleby, Langwathby, Penrith, The Rheged Centre, Threlkeld, Keswick, Cockermouth, Brigham, Stainburn, Workington, Harrington, Distington West and Parton.

Scottish Mainline

These routes would sometimes be the continuations of Northern Mainline or Northwestern Mainline trains.

Glasgow to Aberdeen via Cumbernauld, Stirling, Perth, Dundee, Carnoustie, Arbroath Montrose, Stonehaven and Portlethen
Glasgow to Aberdeen via Stirling, Perth, Blairgowrie, Kirriemuir, Forfar, Brechin and Stonehaven
Glasgow to Inverness via Stirling, Perth, Dunkeld, Pitlochry, Kingussie and Aviemore
Edinburgh to Inverness via Haymarket, Halbeath, Kinross, Perth, Dunkeld, Pitlochry, Kingussie and Aviemore
Edinburgh to Aberdeen via Haymarket, Halbeath, Kinross, Dundee, Carnoustie, Arbroath, Montrose, Stonehaven and Portlethen
Edinburgh to Aberdeen* via Haymarket, Falkirk, Stirling, Perth, Blairgowrie, Kirriemuir, Forfar, Brechin, Stonehaven and Portlethen

*advertised at Edinburgh and Haymarket as running to Brechin

Connect services would run over some Mainline tracks.

The lines in green are 'maybes'; they could be saved on and not built but they'd be useful additions to the network.
 
Last edited:

B&I

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
2,484
Presumably, had the railways not come along and influenced development, it would have followed a similar path to the path it was following before the railways came along. So the biggest cities, and the main targets for rail (concentrating for now on passenger traffic, and leaving aside the importance of mineral and industrial traffic to their actual development) would probably be closer to the 1801 list:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_cities_in_England_by_historical_population

This suggests a mainline network not colossally different to what we have now. There m8ght be some differences. Plymouth / Exeter and Norwich / Yarmouth would be more important destinations. Bath might retain mainline links other than along the GWR. Portsmouth rather than Southampton wiuld be the focus for services on the south coast. Shrewsbury and Chester would be more important, perhaps sharing a major branch off the WCML, or fraturing on the main route into Liverpool. The Manchester-Leeds mainline would probably go via Ashton or Oldham.
 
Last edited:

Eric

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2010
Messages
594
Location
West Yorkshire
Linking Bradford Forster Square and Bradford Interchange with a new station called United Kingdom central.
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,727
What you need to build are Shinkansen, stops every 20 miles or so with a mix of services topping out at about 10tph, 400m double decks.
Slowest trains average 110, fastest run much quicker than that.
 

nw1

Established Member
Joined
9 Aug 2013
Messages
7,081
Starting from the west and heading east the trunk routes would be:

Paddington lines - Bristol, South Wales, South West and Cheltenham routes much as they are. Old Okehampton route to Plymouth added as a diversionary route. Oxford - see Chiltern routes below.
Marylebone Line - becomes the main route to Birmingham with a branch to Oxford and then to Worcester/Hereford etc. Beyond Birmingham extends to Wolverhampton, Shrewsbury and Aberystwyth.
Euston line - based on the main WCML more or less as is, but no longer the main route to Birmingham (however remains main route to Coventry). Follows M1; routes through all of Luton, Milton Keynes and Northampton. Additional branch though to Leicester, Nottingham, Sheffield, Leeds - becoming the main route to the first three of those cities.
Kings Cross line - as is
Liverpool Street line - as is
One Southeastern station serving both Dover/Ramsgate via Chatham and Canterbury (M2 route) and Dover via Maidstone and Ashford (M20 route). Latter has High Speed parallel tracks for trains to the continent.
Victoria lines - for the Sussex coast (everywhere from Hastings to Bognor) - much as now.
Waterloo lines - more detail here as this is my local area. Much as now but with the Mid Hants route back in service as a passenger line. Branches to Bordon and then Liss from the Farnham area and to Cranleigh, Horsham and Brighton from Guildford. Ringwood line brought back into existence and extended to Ferndown, Hurn Airport and Bournemouth. Curve at Eastleigh allowing through services from London to Chandlers Ford and Romsey.

Brighton a through station not a terminus.
New Portsmouth Junction station in the Cosham area but much more important than the existing Cosham. Most services continue to go into Central Portsmouth but Portsmouth Junction serves as a through east-west station. Five-minute regular service from the Junction to the city centre - some originating from elsewhere, some shuttles.
Both of these, along with appropriate curves at Dorchester and Yeovil, allow a South Coast Express service to run from Ashford (connections to the continent)-Brighton-Portsmouth Junction-Southampton-Bournemouth-Exeter-Plymouth. Hourly service augmented with additional service between Brighton and Bournemouth.

Cross-country routes:
Bristol-Birmingham-northwest and northeast - as now
Bournemouth-Reading-Birmingham route much as now but somehow heads into Reading from the east side to avoid reversal. Higher line speeds and straighter track to speed up this route considerably.
Additional routes Southampton-Andover-Swindon-Cheltenham and Bournemouth-Salisbury-Swindon-Cheltenham, making a good number of currently very indirect journeys much more direct.
 
Last edited:

B&I

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
2,484
Linking Bradford Forster Square and Bradford Interchange with a new station called United Kingdom central.


Looking at the Google map, wouldn't that be in Todmorden?
 

B&I

Established Member
Joined
1 Dec 2017
Messages
2,484
What you need to build are Shinkansen, stops every 20 miles or so with a mix of services topping out at about 10tph, 400m double decks.
Slowest trains average 110, fastest run much quicker than that.


That would be a definite advantage to starting nowadays - gargantuan gauging.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top