NR still has a pipeline to deliver into the 2020s. By then the CP6 packages of work will have been agreed. If NR gets it's act together and starts delivering to time and budget at reasonable cost then there is no reason why there will not be further electrification projects.
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Blackpool - Manchester Electrification
- Thread starter GRALISTAIR
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NR still has a pipeline to deliver into the 2020s. By then the CP6 packages of work will have been agreed. If NR gets it's act together and starts delivering to time and budget at reasonable cost then there is no reason why there will not be further electrification projects.
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GRALISTAIR
Established Member
I think I agree with you but so we are on the same page let’s see if I can put up a list.
1. Finish off completely Manchester to Blackpool. Say 2018
2. Lostock to Wigan - say end of 2019 hopefully earlier.
3. Miles Platting area to Stalybridge grid feeder. 2019 into 2020s
4. Stockport to Stalybridge. Early 2020s
5. Ashton Moss Junction etc fill ins - early 2020s
Are we in agreement?
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
I don't think there is much of a pipeline which is active, in terms of deploying an "orange army".
Definitely Active: Manchester-Blackpool (inc a short bit east of Victoria)
Also Bromsgrove, Rugeley, EGIP, Shotts, GW mainline to Bristol/Cardiff/Newbury/Oxford, Bedford-Corby, Gospel Oak-Barking
All these should be getting fully resourced if not already, although some are dependent on prior resignalling.
Unfunded/no authority (not at GRIP 3): TP, Wigan
Neither of these, or anything new, are ready to proceed, so the resources are as yet not needed/deployable.
The status of Victoria-Stalybridge is dubious, and the Philips Park route even less so.
The whole route east of Victoria/Guide Bridge is linked to the stalled TP which has no authority.
Stockport-Guide Bridge and anything around Ashton Moss was never in the plan.
Scotland might authorise the next local route for wiring once they can see the finishing post on EGIP/Shotts.
The best sign of continuity would be confirmation of Lostock-Wigan, but the delays on the main line work are not helping.
But at least it would demonstrate the electrification show is still on the road.
Currently the solution on that route is class 769.
Gospel Oak to Barking is now finished isn't it? Started running this week.
Depending on the definition of "definitely active" (and in the absence of inside knowledge) I'm not sure whether it's right to count Bristol TM (via either route) or Oxford in that category, but I think it's reasonable to hope that they will be restarted in CP6.
DfT have received the GRIP 3 report on TP and are thinking it over.
What I don't know is, if a project has completed GRIP 3, how near does that make it to being ready to start on the ground, once financial authority is received? Some of the problems with some of the schemes seem to have been caused by starting on the ground too soon.
Depending on the definition of "definitely active" (and in the absence of inside knowledge) I'm not sure whether it's right to count Bristol TM (via either route) or Oxford in that category, but I think it's reasonable to hope that they will be restarted in CP6.
DfT have received the GRIP 3 report on TP and are thinking it over.
What I don't know is, if a project has completed GRIP 3, how near does that make it to being ready to start on the ground, once financial authority is received? Some of the problems with some of the schemes seem to have been caused by starting on the ground too soon.
Class 170101
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GRIP 5 to 8 is actual construction work as I recall.
GOB is wired now but not in passenger use. Class 378 testing is however underway.
GOB is wired now but not in passenger use. Class 378 testing is however underway.
Only GRIP6 is actual construction.
GRIP5 is detailed designed, after a single Option is developed at GRIP4
GRIP6 is construction, test and comission
GRIP7 is handback
GRIP8 is project closeout.
No, I think there is more than that - I am not just looking at new stretches of line - there are also renewals and other project work still on the Delivery Plan.
The work was cut back to match NR resource capabilities so I expect NR is still full committed financially and in terms of resources.
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I assume this picture is where the OS map shows the HV wires going over the line between Lea Lane and Darkinson Lane.
https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/955082783550066688
https://twitter.com/TheGNRP/status/955082783550066688
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Certainly there or thereabouts, you can see the works at Salwick in the distance.
This image says at least two good things: 1. nice high oversail by power lines over OHLE and 2. more wires have gone up.
TP GRIP3 is for route upgrade and not for electrification.
Do you have specific information that it doesn't include electrification? Contrary to what many believe there has been no statement by Grayling dropping electrification of this route. He merely suggested that the electrification might end up being discontinuous.
Edit: I've now read the latest posts in the TP thread. It has options for full, partial and no electrification.
themiller
Member
I think you need to add some upgrades to that list such as the MML south. Also will the ECML be getting some of its headspans replaced by portals to make it more resilient?
Electrification teams must be starting to become available this year with the completion of GOBLIN, Blackpool, Bolton and Crossrail. Any ideas where these teams will be redeployed to or do you think that they'll be disbanded?
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Actually I posted the above in error but have left it as it has provoked debate. What I intended since the topic of this thread is Manchester -Blackpool, IN CONTEXT, was electrification that could logically follow on in the North/Northwest after completion - hence those. In the pinned electrification resources thread - I am doing a three month update of electrification related work taking place throughout the UK.
For completeness - even though slightly OT - here is what I think is the current state of play.
January 2018– Electrification or new build electrifying in Progress
1) Manchester to Preston and Blackpool North plus Man Vic – Miles Platting area
2) Bolton to Wigan North Western - GRIP 3 ? ish
3) Great Western Main Line London - Cardiff
4) Midland Main Line to Kettering and Corby only
5) Gospel Oak to Barking Line (GOBLIN) - very close to completion/complete - needs testing etc
6) Barnt Green to Bromsgrove
7) Chase Line from Walsall to Rugeley Trent Valley
8) Edinburgh Glasgow Improvement Programme (EGIP)
a) via Falkirk High ---- complete
b) Edinburgh – Glasgow via Shotts
9) Rolling Programme -- Cumbernauld - Falkirk Grahamston etc- Stirling- Dunblane -Alloa
10) Crossrail (yes new build but it will be electrified from the start)
11) HS2 (yes new build but it will be electrified from the start)
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I was at a meeting in York last July where we were told by the Network Rail upgrade team that if electric times of 35-40 minutes Leeds-Manchester can be achieved by easing curves and junctions using diesel, then TP electrification will not happen. That rules out electric freight, electric charters and York/Selby-Leeds-Huddersfield local services on an already optimised line.
I think all the bridges between Neville Hill and Colton Jnc have already been lifted except Garforth station road bridge. The British disease strikes again.
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Shouldn't the point be that electrification will speed things up further, especially for stopping services, as well as bringing numerous other benefits?
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
All the PR for progress on the electrification schemes uses the phrases "cleaner, greener, quieter, faster" etc, and those words also figure in the business cases and the project reporting.
Plus things like lower cost purchase and maintenance for the trains.
We seem to be being hoodwinked twice over, in believing all this guff in the first place, or dumping it just because the DfT has changed its mind.
Next thing will be hydrogen powered trains as the magical future - till the disadvantages start to show...
I do live in some hope that the electrification east of Leeds, given that the capacity constraints are even tighter than they are for most of the TP North route, and as a result of relying on structures work already undertaken, ought to stand up on its own merits even if west of Leeds is not taken forward. I do suspect that a non electrified east of Leeds will need expensive 4 tracking work...
LDECRexile
Established Member
Paul and I toured Salford Crescent to Buckshaw Parkway and back by train today, when we were able to photograph the wirings and the foundation work on either side of Chorley tunnel reported last week, together with other bits and pieces.
I've added Paul's photos to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381
and all of our output to the Combined Volume here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633
Great to get together again Paul.
I've added Paul's photos to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157649792560381
and all of our output to the Combined Volume here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633
Great to get together again Paul.
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LDECRexile
Established Member
Last week I asked people who have contributed photos via me if Network Rail may use any of them from time to time, with the customary courtesy accreditation. I said that I would take no reply by today to mean "Yes, please do."
As I have received no negative responses I will give them the green light.
As I have received no negative responses I will give them the green light.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
So would I be right in saying there were no new wires up south of Euxton in the past week?
It's difficult to tell if any catenary wire is up from the photos.
I thought I had spotted some, but then I realised the pic was of St Helens Central!
LDECRexile
Established Member
We saw four stretches of wire:
North of Buckshaw Parkway, as photographed.
South of Buckshaw Parkway, as photographed.
Between Horwich Parkway and the M61, west of tracks only, as photographed last week by ALX400
From the footbridge by the golf course a short distance north of Lostock to beyond Lostock Lane road bridge, as reported by ALX400 last week.
It doesn't look as if any has been added.
Most striking activity was de-veging south of Kearsley.
A base has been installed more or less opposite the points where the lines to Bolton P4 and P5 diverge, so the only obvious gap between Moses Gate and the bow bridge north of Bolton is one base opposite P5.
Foggycorner
Member
In the photos of Bolton platform 2 bay end you can see where the roof has had to be cut back to be clear of the terminal mast that will be at the end of platform 2 bay behind the buffers.
The telegraph office shot brings back memories of my early days at Bolton when I started on the railway in the S&T
no young lad was safe in there from the lady telephonists ah happy days
The telegraph office shot brings back memories of my early days at Bolton when I started on the railway in the S&T
no young lad was safe in there from the lady telephonists ah happy days
LDECRexile
Established Member
Glad to have raised a smile.
Wrinkley has kindly sent a shot of a new base near Lostock station. Apart from that he says the Lostock to Dean Clough stretch has been becalmed for the past week.
I've added the shot to his album here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157654034635234
and to the Combined Volume here:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/127646831@N03/albums/72157661069863633
Thank you Wrinkley.
Testing signalling on the Blackpool South line (!)
https://twitter.com/networkrail/status/955455017699360769
Not long now to reopening.
https://twitter.com/networkrail/status/955455017699360769
Not long now to reopening.
Malay States
Member
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Platforms 1&2 being tarmac'd the hard way this morning - by wheelbarrow from a lorry, across platform 3 and over a temporary bridge across the running lines. There were about 50 orange people working on the station, 5 being on wheelbarrow duty.
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Kirkham and Wesham I assume ?
GRALISTAIR
Established Member
Updated Progressometer - or more accurately son of progressometer - Preston - Blackpool only - please feel free to copy/paste and correct as you get updated information.
Preston Power Box Sidings to start of Tom Benson way - fully wired and live to the neutral section at Fylde Junction and fully wired after that.
Tom Benson Way to Salwick station fully wired.
Salwick station north end to Kirkham South Jn --- Fully wired to at least Carr Lane Bridge area
Kirkham South Jn to Kirkham North Jn -- Many/all bases in place, many masts, no wires
Kirkham North Jn to Poulton-le-Fylde station south end -- Vast majority/all of bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires
Poulton-le-Fylde station south end to Poulton-le-Fylde Jn (includes Poulton-le-F Station) -- Many/all bases in place, many with masts, no wires
Poulton-le-Fylde Jn-Layton station east end -- Many/all bases in place, many with masts, no wires
Layton station -- All bases in place, all with masts, no wires
Layton station west end to Blackpool North bufferstops - Most but not quite all bases in place, many masts, no wires
Preston Power Box Sidings to start of Tom Benson way - fully wired and live to the neutral section at Fylde Junction and fully wired after that.
Tom Benson Way to Salwick station fully wired.
Salwick station north end to Kirkham South Jn --- Fully wired to at least Carr Lane Bridge area
Kirkham South Jn to Kirkham North Jn -- Many/all bases in place, many masts, no wires
Kirkham North Jn to Poulton-le-Fylde station south end -- Vast majority/all of bases in place, mostly with masts, no wires
Poulton-le-Fylde station south end to Poulton-le-Fylde Jn (includes Poulton-le-F Station) -- Many/all bases in place, many with masts, no wires
Poulton-le-Fylde Jn-Layton station east end -- Many/all bases in place, many with masts, no wires
Layton station -- All bases in place, all with masts, no wires
Layton station west end to Blackpool North bufferstops - Most but not quite all bases in place, many masts, no wires
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
A mild week should help with progress.
Can't be much fun stringing up wires in driving sleet.
Can't be much fun stringing up wires in driving sleet.
AngelicUpstart
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Not directly linked, but related, Harrowside Bridge in Blackpool is due to re-open to road traffic a good month early probably before 12th Feb. The work is nearly finished, with site clearance already underway. Squires Gate Lane bridge is also ahead of schedule.
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