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Question on 'loophole' ticket validity and possible hassle

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jkdd77

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I don't wish to name the stations at this stage, but, with stations A -> B -> C -> D in a line, not being part of the same station group, I'd like to buy a C to D "via B" CDR ticket which permits BoJ at intermediate stations, and use it, along with a different CDR valid for A to B, to travel A to D return to save money on the A to D through fare.

Journey planners show C to D via B as being valid notwithstanding the doubleback through C.

Firstly, am I correct in thinking that this is valid, provided of course that the train stops at B in both direction (it definitely will) and does not stop at C in either direction, since a ticket routed "via B" must surely, by definition, have "B" as an intermediate station?

Secondly, am I likely to face hassle on the trains, particularly when using a combination of tickets in such a way as to make it obvious that I have not travelled from C?
 
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gray1404

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Good call not to name that stations, seriously, it would just be "shut down" otherwise. I point that out because too often people (esp new members here) give out too much information and close loop holes that we all use and spoil it for all of us. So its nice to see a member actually doing the right thing and not giving the game away here.

If possible could you travel on separate trains so that the fact you are using a split is not as obvious?
 
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robbeech

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Depending on what journey planner you use, a via point might not necessarily mean a train calls at that station, it could pass through the station and not call.
You therefore need to check that there are trains that call at C and B.

There is nothing to stop you using these tickets if it fulfils the criteria. When you board at A You would be required to show the ticket to B on inspection. You’d only be required to show your C to D via B ticket if requested. Changing trains at B would save a lot of potential hassle as others have said.
 
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RJ

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jkdd77 said:
I don't wish to name the stations at this stage, but, with stations A -> B -> C -> D in a line, not being part of the same station group, I'd like to buy a C to D "via B" CDR ticket which permits BoJ at intermediate stations, and use it, along with a different CDR valid for A to B, to travel A to D return to save money on the A to D through fare.

Journey planners show C to D via B as being valid notwithstanding the doubleback through C.

Firstly, am I correct in thinking that this is valid, provided of course that the train stops at B in both direction (it definitely will) and does not stop at C in either direction, since a ticket routed "via B" must surely, by definition, have "B" as an intermediate station?

Secondly, am I likely to face hassle on the trains, particularly when using a combination of tickets in such a way as to make it obvious that I have not travelled from C?
Click to expand...

This is hard to follow. Can you provide some station names?
 
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RJ

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roversfan2001 said:
That would result in the loophole being shut down if spotted by the relevant people, so I'm not surprised the OP hasn't included them.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter what the stations are, so long as the situation is illustrated clearly. It appears to be a variation of "can I start/stop short on a permitted route" to which I'd suggest checking any restriction codes for break of journey prohibitions. Also if changing tickets at a station where the train stops, there's no point in showing the ticket inspector everything at once - just the one which is being used at the time will suffice.
 
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OwlMan

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If it is a routeing guide easement that allows the doubleback it will depend on the actual wording of the easement. Some easements are worded as to only allow the double back if you are travelling between certain points; if you were not travelling between those points the easement would no longer be valid for example
Customers travelling via Worcester Stations to Longbridge and Barnt Green in possession of tickets routed "Any Permitted" may double back via Birmingham New Street. This easement applies in both directions.
Click to expand...
This allows a doubleback via Birmingham New Street for tickets from Barnt Green to Great Malvern (via Worcester) it would not apply to split tickets as you would not be travelling from Barnt Green.
 
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jkdd77

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The ticket used for A to B will be straightforward and uncontroversial.

This isn't the flow in question, but suppose, for the sake of drawing an analogy, that a Twyford- London "via Reading" CDR, (P7, no BoJ restriction), undercut the Reading- London CDR (it doesn't). Could such a hypothetical cheaper ticket be used to travel from Reading to London on non-stop trains?

This is virtually identical in concept to my actual proposed journey, except that, with my proposed ticket, there will be a real saving to be made.
 
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bb21

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If the flow is explicitly routed "Via Reading", and the fare has no BoJ restriction, I see no reason why it should not be valid for starting/finishing short at Reading.

I would however echo the advice on changing at Reading if you would like a hassle-free journey.
 
Kite159

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OwlMan said:
If it is a routeing guide easement that allows the doubleback it will depend on the actual wording of the easement. Some easements are worded as to only allow the double back if you are travelling between certain points; if you were not travelling between those points the easement would no longer be valid for example

This allows a doubleback via Birmingham New Street for tickets from Barnt Green to Great Malvern (via Worcester) it would not apply to split tickets as you would not be travelling from Barnt Green.
Click to expand...

I can see that easement getting removed/modified when the Cross City line is extended to Bromsgrove, maybe allowing a double back via Longbridge as only 1 train an hour will call at Barnt Green from Bromsgrove.
 
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