Ely to Bristol Temple Meads via Birmingham

Hi all,

Due to engineering works today (no trains Cambridge to Kings Cross), the fastest route from Ely to Bristol is via Birmingham on CrossCountry.

I hold a BRI-ELY Super off peak return (outward portion used), but can't work out if it's valid or not. I can get an itinerary on National Rail but only with Advance fares.

Sorry I'm no good at using the routeing guide! Can you help?

Many thanks

The Routeing Guide only lists LONDON as a valid route for a journey from Ely to Bristol. I'm very surprised that it's not valid via Birmingham as seems like a reasonable route and avoids a cross-London transfer. Peterborough to Bristol is valid via either London or Birmingham for example. Maybe the RDG people who watch this forum could get the Routeing Guide changed?

The journey planners are offering Ely -> Cambridge -> Liverpool Street -> Paddington -> Bristol in 4h54m

I can see that you are correct because Ely -> Birmingham -> Bristol is 4h16m. Much simpler journey.

But I can't say whether your ticket would be valid. Maybe someone at Ely booking office would know, or could endorse your ticket appropriately. (But it shuts at 1pm!)

Only valid via London as far as I can see.

There are no direct trains so unless it's the shortest route, or within 3 miles of the shortest route it's not valid. From what I can see via Birmingham is about 10 miles longer than the shortest route so it isn't valid.

I agree it's entirely reasonable but and maybe a helpful person from the RDG who reads these forums will make a change but RDG are trying to remove permitted routes rather than add them as this makes things more simple for passengers and is apparently what passengers want.

Thanks for the responses guys - shame it isn't valid as it is a pretty obvious route! When the route via London is working as normal it's still only slightly slower, and as you say much simpler to go via Birmingham.

I will have to try my usual trick of getting off the 1932 CBG-LST train at Tottenham Hale and attempting to dash from there to PAD in 29mins to catch the 2057 to BRI. At the moment I'm about 50/50.

The route is not currently permitted, despite being reasonable.

It would almost certainly have been permitted under British Rail.

I do not know when it was removed (if anyone has the time to look it up, please do) but unfortunately the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) have embarked on a massive permitted route culling operation, which they say is to make things "simple" for passengers, by removing many routes that were traditionally reasonable.

This is an increasing problem that is only going to get worse.

In theory, the removal of any permitted route legally requires the permission of the DfT. However the DfT do not appear to have adequate safeguards in place to either make the appropriate checks or be aware of when they are not being consulted.

If you did travel via Birmingham it is unlikely anyone would question the ticket. If they did, the 'Disputed Route Procedure' could be invoked (in theory; but in practice this is very unlikely to happen).

Incidentally, a combination of 3 Off Peak Returns (SVRs) valid for travel via Birmingham is £12.10 cheaper than the through SVR that requires travel via London, although this is more expensive than the through Super Off Peak Return (SSR).

In the 1996 Routeing Guide Ely to Bristol was valid via either LONDON or maps CE+CN. CE+CN allowed travel via Birmingham. Sometime between 1996 and mid-2013 (the oldest "modern" version of the guide that I have to hand) the route via Birmingham must have been removed, allowing travel via London only. I wonder if DfT were consulted and if they gave permission? FoI request anyone?

Agreed that this is a perfectly reasonable route.

yorkie said:

I do not know when it was removed (if anyone has the time to look it up, please do)

Click to expand...

In the RG published 1-May-2014 (I've assumed no relevant easements)...

Ely-Bristol : was not valid via Birmingham
(routes look the same as today)

And re the other recent questions:-

Manchester-Wigan : was not valid via Warrington
(routes are no different from today - on map NN only)

Glasgow-Stalybridge : was not valid via S&C and Leeds/Bradford
(Main change I can see is via Hexham was valid back then - that link has been lost from YG)

lyndhurst25 said:

In the 1996 Routeing Guide Ely to Bristol was valid via either LONDON or maps CE+CN. CE+CN allowed travel via Birmingham. Sometime between 1996 and mid-2013 (the oldest "modern" version of the guide that I have to hand) the route via Birmingham must have been removed, allowing travel via London only....

Click to expand...

Yes - AFAICS in Sep 2008 it was London CE+CN but by Mar 2009 it had changed to just London

( that's from the very useful http://www.farehistory.info/routeing-guide/ )

(Not wanting to hijack the thread but the actual fare search on the very useful farehistory.info website has been broken for a while, returning "Error 502". Not sure who is behind the site but if they are looking in then fixing it would be most welcome.)