Taking Train Driver Assessment Again

hstmatt · 12 Feb 2018

Hi all,
I applied for a Virgin Trains Apprentice driver last year, and reached the assessment centre.
We took three assesments off the top of my head, one was a memory test, one was the group bourdon and I forget the other.
I failed the Group Bourdon, passed one of the tests to "Virgins Standard" and passed the other test to the "National Standard".
I was told my results last for five years, and that if I do re-take test, I only have to retake the part of the assessment that I failed?
Is this still the case?
Also, would anyone be able to advise me of what other tests that I may find?
Thank You
Matthew

RailUK Forums

Firestarter · 12 Feb 2018

hstmatt said:
Hi all,
I applied for a Virgin Trains Apprentice driver last year, and reached the assessment centre.
We took three assesments off the top of my head, one was a memory test, one was the group bourdon and I forget the other.
I failed the Group Bourdon, passed one of the tests to "Virgins Standard" and passed the other test to the "National Standard".
I was told my results last for five years, and that if I do re-take test, I only have to retake the part of the assessment that I failed?
Is this still the case?
Also, would anyone be able to advise me of what other tests that I may find?
Thank You
Matthew

If thats what you was told then we cant really challenge that in fairness

baz962 · 12 Feb 2018

hstmatt said:
Hi all,
I applied for a Virgin Trains Apprentice driver last year, and reached the assessment centre.
We took three assesments off the top of my head, one was a memory test, one was the group bourdon and I forget the other.
I failed the Group Bourdon, passed one of the tests to "Virgins Standard" and passed the other test to the "National Standard".
I was told my results last for five years, and that if I do re-take test, I only have to retake the part of the assessment that I failed?
Is this still the case?
Also, would anyone be able to advise me of what other tests that I may find?
Thank You
Matthew

Almost certainly have to take the group bourdon and the national, to reach virgin standard, unless you are applying t a company that requires only national, then it will be just the group bourdon.

hstmatt · 12 Feb 2018

Im just looking at my options, which tocs will only want me to take the Group Bourdon and not the national?

baz962 · 12 Feb 2018

hstmatt said:
Im just looking at my options, which tocs will only want me to take the Group Bourdon and not the national?

No too sure which take national but for sure, virgin, east midlands, govia, mtr and arriva require enhanced.

Dynamonic · 12 Feb 2018

Another thing to keep in mind is that some companies will only use your valid passes if they were achieved within a set time frame. Although the OPC set the five year rule as a maximum valid length guideline, a lot of companies will not accept results that old. For example, East Midlands Trains currently accept Enhanced level passes that are under two years old, and will ask you to resit the process if your results are older. It's also important to note that your new test results will replace your old ones, whether they're better or worse.
However, if your results are valid according to that particular company's own guidelines, you'll most likely just sit the tests that you need to get up to their standard.

As a reminder, the Stage One OPC tests consist of:

Group Bourdon (Dots Test)
Trainability for Rules & Procedures (TRP) Parts 1 and 2 (GLOP test and dials)
Tests of Everyday Attention for Occupational Assessment (TEA-Occ) Parts 1,2 and 3 (Phone book and tones)

Good luck!

baz962 · 12 Feb 2018

Dynamonic said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that some companies will only use your valid passes if they were achieved within a set time frame. Although the OPC set the five year rule as a maximum valid length guideline, a lot of companies will not accept results that old. For example, East Midlands Trains currently accept Enhanced level passes that are under two years old, and will ask you to resit the process if your results are older. It's also important to note that your new test results will replace your old ones, whether they're better or worse.
However, if your results are valid according to that particular company's own guidelines, you'll most likely just sit the tests that you need to get up to their standard.

As a reminder, the Stage One OPC tests consist of:

Group Bourdon (Dots Test)

Trainability for Rules & Procedures (TRP) Parts 1 and 2 (GLOP test and dials)

Tests of Everyday Attention for Occupational Assessment (TEA-Occ) Parts 1,2 and 3 (Phone book and tones)

Good luck!

The op on his post, said it was last year so no prob at mo, got a year left.

hstmatt · 12 Feb 2018

Dynamonic said:
Another thing to keep in mind is that some companies will only use your valid passes if they were achieved within a set time frame. Although the OPC set the five year rule as a maximum valid length guideline, a lot of companies will not accept results that old. For example, East Midlands Trains currently accept Enhanced level passes that are under two years old, and will ask you to resit the process if your results are older. It's also important to note that your new test results will replace your old ones, whether they're better or worse.
However, if your results are valid according to that particular company's own guidelines, you'll most likely just sit the tests that you need to get up to their standard.

As a reminder, the Stage One OPC tests consist of:

Group Bourdon (Dots Test)

Trainability for Rules & Procedures (TRP) Parts 1 and 2 (GLOP test and dials)

Tests of Everyday Attention for Occupational Assessment (TEA-Occ) Parts 1,2 and 3 (Phone book and tones)

Good luck!

Brilliant, thanks mate!
I'm currently a guard at Northern, and as far as I am aware (OPC told me at last assessment centre) that they use the maximum 5 years.
I was wondering, what would part two consist of?
I'm gonna try get as much practice as possible before going into it again.
Thanks

baz962 · 12 Feb 2018

hstmatt said:
Brilliant, thanks mate!
I'm currently a guard at Northern, and as far as I am aware (OPC told me at last assessment centre) that they use the maximum 5 years.
I was wondering, what would part two consist of?
I'm gonna try get as much practice as possible before going into it again.
Thanks

Looking at your post, you said you did bourdon,and memory (glop I reckon), and one you could not remember, prob dials, so the tones and phone, book to do on paper and pencil test's. Other tests you have to do are wafv, atavt, and two hand joystick test plus mmi. You will also have to do any that the particular toc require, govia want a driver fault finding test, a written comprehension, and Arriva want driver fault finding a bespoke sjt and a bespoke vse for example, hope this helps.

hstmatt · 12 Feb 2018

baz962 said:
Looking at your post, you said you did bourdon,and memory (glop I reckon), and one you could not remember, prob dials, so the tones and phone, book to do on paper and pencil test's. Other tests you have to do are wafv, atavt, and two hand joystick test plus mmi. You will also have to do any that the particular toc require, govia want a driver fault finding test, a written comprehension, and Arriva want driver fault finding a bespoke sjt and a bespoke vse for example, hope this helps.

That is a great help, thanks mate!
Is there any online tests that could help me with the 'Stage 2' tests?

baz962 · 12 Feb 2018

hstmatt said:
That is a great help, thanks mate!
Is there any online tests that could help me with the 'Stage 2' tests?

I found the one where you look at a pic for a second then recall what you saw on youtube

Cheryl · 5 Mar 2018

Hello!

Sorry to but in but I am about to sit stage 1 driver assessment and I was wondering with the TEA - OCC test how quickly are the tones ?

Dynamonic · 5 Mar 2018

Cheryl said:
Hello!

Sorry to but in but I am about to sit stage 1 driver assessment and I was wondering with the TEA - OCC test how quickly are the tones ?

Hi there Cheryl,

From memory, the tones play at a consistent pace of one tone every 3/4 of a second.

Cheryl · 5 Mar 2018

Dynamonic said:
Hi there Cheryl,

From memory, the tones play at a consistent pace of one tone every 3/4 of a second.

Hello!

Thank you for the speedy response!!
That’s quite quick, is that the same for when you are doing part 3 with the telephone search too?

Do you have any tips on how to pass the assessments??

Dynamonic · 5 Mar 2018

Cheryl said:
Hello!

Thank you for the speedy response!!
That’s quite quick, is that the same for when you are doing part 3 with the telephone search too?

Do you have any tips on how to pass the assessments??

It is quick because in the Driver role, you’ll have to respond quickly to different alerts, so it’s important to effectively distinguish between the different tones.
If you have the competencies required of a driver, you’ll find you should be able to handle the tone counting with no problem, as is the case with all the tests.

The pace is similar for the third part too, but this time there is only a single type of tone to count.
For me, with the tone counting, I looked down and closed my eyes to eliminate all distractions, but others will have their own way of doing it. (Nodding to the tones, tapping their knees, counting with fingers under the table etc.)

In terms of preparing for the assessments, the practice material you will receive is actually quite helpful, as it’s designed to test you in similar ways to the actual tests (although the actual tests are obviously different).
Also, the Group Bourdon tool stickied in the thread at the top is also very handy. (Print the test sheets off in the tool to give you an accurate experience of the test)
Also, the simple act of getting a good rest the night before will make a huge difference!

Good luck!

hstmatt · 3 Aug 2018

Sorry for bringing up an old thread!
Since starting my guards job, I've seen improvements on my score on the Group Bourdon Test.

I'm at a bit of a crossroad in terms of what to do next.
I can either have another shot at driving, or go for a Conductors job with LNW at Crewe, both of which require me to retake the test.

My current results are:

Perception and Attention
Targets Omitted --- 1
Marked Incorrect -- 0

Speed
Total Cells -- 1451
Mean Cell Time -- 0.268
Median Cell Time -- 0.230

Completed Rows -- 55
Mean Row Time -- 6.685
Median Row Time -- 6.670

Vigilance
Row Fluctuation -- 1.91

Feeling pretty happy with results anyway!

Cyclist · 4 Aug 2018

hstmatt said:
Sorry for bringing up an old thread!
Since starting my guards job, I've seen improvements on my score on the Group Bourdon Test.

I'm at a bit of a crossroad in terms of what to do next.
I can either have another shot at driving, or go for a Conductors job with LNW at Crewe, both of which require me to retake the test.

My current results are:

Perception and Attention
Targets Omitted --- 1
Marked Incorrect -- 0

Speed
Total Cells -- 1451
Mean Cell Time -- 0.268
Median Cell Time -- 0.230

Completed Rows -- 55
Mean Row Time -- 6.685
Median Row Time -- 6.670

Vigilance
Row Fluctuation -- 1.91

Feeling pretty happy with results anyway!

switch to printing it out mate. Computer and printed are not comparable and the real test is printed as you know. You want to make your practice as realistic as possible. Start by aiming for 8 perfect lines per sheet. Computer result looks decent though.

dazzayid · 4 Aug 2018

You should print the sheets off and just keep going on them, I did it for ages and you will get to know the patterns and it becomes easier. To pass you will need around 10 lines with no mistakes. I had people finish the page when I did mine and they all failed.

Timpg · 4 Aug 2018

dazzayid said:
You should print the sheets off and just keep going on them, I did it for ages and you will get to know the patterns and it becomes easier. To pass you will need around 10 lines with no mistakes. I had people finish the page when I did mine and they all failed.

I recently did the group bourden test to enhanced standard. Seriously thought I’d failed it as I made two mistakes, but I did correct them! I didn’t get time to practice, so wasn’t confident at all. But I passed!!!!

Tatoodles · 15 Dec 2018

I had my assessment day on Tuesday for Northern and failed my 2 hand co-ordination test due to speed.. I stupidly concentrated on accuracy and totally forgot about how quick I needed to go :rolleyes:

. I was wondering how I go about re-taking this test? Do I have to hope that Northern advertise for a trainee train driver role in May and reapply.. start from the beginning, have an interveiw and hope I get progressed or do Northern resubmit you for a re-test if they are still recruiting in 6 months time? Any advice will be much appreciated

OneLowban · 15 Dec 2018

Tatoodles said:
I had my assessment day on Tuesday for Northern and failed my 2 hand co-ordination test due to speed.. I stupidly concentrated on accuracy and totally forgot about how quick I needed to go . I was wondering how I go about re-taking this test? Do I have to hope that Northern advertise for a trainee train driver role in May and reapply.. start from the beginning, have an interveiw and hope I get progressed or do Northern resubmit you for a re-test if they are still recruiting in 6 months time? Any advice will be much appreciated

You will need to wait 6 months until you are able to try the assessment(s) with any TOC. Anything already passed you will not have to do again, unless the TOC you apply for requires enhanced pass and Northern require a national pass.

Sorry to hear that and best of luck next time.

Tatoodles · 15 Dec 2018

OneLowban said:
You will need to wait 6 months until you are able to try the assessment(s) with any TOC. Anything already passed you will not have to do again, unless the TOC you apply for requires enhanced pass and Northern require a national pass.

Sorry to hear that and best of luck next time.

Thanks.. I’m absolutely gutted. Do I have to look out for new trainee train driver jobs to be advertised and start again?

OneLowban · 15 Dec 2018

Tatoodles said:
Do I have to look out for new trainee train driver jobs to be advertised and start again?

Count 6 months from the date you failed the assessment > near the time find and apply for any trainee driver roles > your passes will be held on the national database so when you go to sit your assessments again, they will tell you the ones you need to do > MMI should be part of stage 2 assessments > Interview.

Northern won’t just call you up next time they recruit so you will have to keep an eye out. But only start looking in 5ish months time I would say.

Gooner18 · 15 Dec 2018

Tatoodles said:
Thanks.. I’m absolutely gutted. Do I have to look out for new trainee train driver jobs to be advertised and start again?

Yes , but you won’t be able to apply for 6 months , Depending on what you passed at ( standard or enhanced) and what TOC you apply for , you may only have to resit the hand eye test, as well as the interviews etc

Gooner18 · 15 Dec 2018

Ahh beaten to it lol

Tatoodles · 15 Dec 2018

OneLowban said:
Count 6 months from the date you failed the assessment > near the time find and apply for any trainee driver roles > your passes will be held on the national database so when you go to sit your assessments again, they will tell you the ones you need to do > MMI should be part of stage 2 assessments > Interview.

Northern won’t just call you up next time they recruit so you will have to keep an eye out. But only start looking in 5ish months time I would say.

Thanks for clarifying for me.. i’ll Keep my fingers crossed there’s vacancies in 5 months

Tatoodles · 15 Dec 2018

Gooner18 said:
Yes , but you won’t be able to apply for 6 months , Depending on what you passed at ( standard or enhanced) and what TOC you apply for , you may only have to resit the hand eye test, as well as the interviews etc

Thanks for clarifying for me.. i’ll Keep my fingers crossed there’s vacancies in 5 months

OneLowban · 15 Dec 2018

No problem. GA should be recruiting drivers next year so just keep an eye out in around 5 months on all TOCs near you and don’t stress before.

Also from personal experience, don’t rely on job alerts, just manually look. Good luck.

Firestarter · 15 Dec 2018

OneLowban said:
No problem. GA should be recruiting drivers next year so just keep an eye out in around 5 months on all TOCs near you and don’t stress before.

Also from personal experience, don’t rely on job alerts, just manually look. Good luck.

Any ideas when GA will be advertising especially at Liverpool Street and also do GA do the MMI before the DMI?

OneLowban · 15 Dec 2018

Firestarter said:
Any ideas when GA will be advertising especially at Liverpool Street and also do GA do the MMI before the DMI?

I’m not sure they will do it specifically for Liverpool Street, however when the advert next comes out it should say which depots, but either way I would definitely get in touch with Sally in HR to discuss.

I didn’t do my assessments with GA but I’m pretty sure they do the MMI before the DMI.

Taking Train Driver Assessment Again

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