The UK attitude to firearms

EM2 · 15 Feb 2018

After yet another mass shooting in the USA, I've been wondering what fellow UK residents experience is of firearms.
In answering the poll, I'd like you to ignore the following.

Air guns at a funfair/pier/fairground
Organised shooting events (e.g. clay pigeon shoot)
Shotguns for game shooting/hunting
Rifles for pest control/hunting
Firearms used by the army or police

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ComUtoR · 15 Feb 2018

Do Nerf guns count ? What about Airsoft/Paintball ?

Why have you excluded such a rather large chunk of 'firearms' experience ? Surely that experience often determines our attitude towards firearms.

GusB · 15 Feb 2018

Considering you've listed most legitimate uses for guns in the UK, I hope that everyone answers "none of these"!

gnolife · 15 Feb 2018

GusB said:
Considering you've listed most legitimate uses for guns in the UK, I hope that everyone answers "none of these"!

Not necessarily. If someone has been to a country where firearms are permitted, it is quite feasible that they will have crossed paths with one.

GusB · 15 Feb 2018

gnolife said:
Not necessarily. If someone has been to a country where firearms are permitted, it is quite feasible that they will have crossed paths with one.

Fair point. The thread title said "UK attitude to firearms", so I assumed the OP meant within the UK.

EM2 · 15 Feb 2018

ComUtoR said:
Do Nerf guns count ? What about Airsoft/Paintball ?

No. They aren't classed as firearms.

Why have you excluded such a rather large chunk of 'firearms' experience ? Surely that experience often determines our attitude towards firearms.

Because those experiences are legitimate uses for firearms and generally well controlled.

ComUtoR · 15 Feb 2018

EM2 said:
No. They aren't classed as firearms.

But they do apply. It is the casual attitude toward 'guns' that is part of the problem. My kids at various points in their life have had Nerf and other weapon based toys to be banned.

Because those experiences are legitimate uses for firearms and generally well controlled.

Are you therefore after non legitimate experiences ?

GatwickDepress · 15 Feb 2018

I've fired a few weapons when I was in the Army Cadet Force and thoroughly enjoyed it. I even have my shooting badges sewn onto a brassard somewhere. I'd never want to own a gun however.

gordonthemoron · 15 Feb 2018

I fired rifles when I was in the air cadets, didn't like it, can't see the point in guns

Kite159 · 15 Feb 2018

Firing an army rifle was good fun a few years ago (all under proper supervision on a "contractor meet the army day")

Plus I've fired a shotgun when I was younger, the sight of guns doesn't bother me as I see them every working day when going onto camp for work

Iskra · 15 Feb 2018

gordonthemoron said:
I fired rifles when I was in the air cadets, didn't like it, can't see the point in guns

Me too, target rifles and the L98, but in all honesty I think shooting on a range is one of the most boring things going, a very overrated activity. I can see that hunting or clay pigeon shooting could be more interesting but they aren't my cup of tea. Give me Aerobatics in a Grob over that any day! I did enjoy playing on the RAF Sat range, which involves using real guns converted to fire lasers at a screen where you shoot terrorists etc, felt like a big cool video game.

I do have an air pistol in my house from my youth, but it's legal and I've never done anything illegal with it.

Butts · 16 Feb 2018

gordonthemoron said:
I fired rifles when I was in the air cadets, didn't like it, can't see the point in guns

I also fired Lee Enfield .303 in the Air cadets (some kick) and SLR's amongst others in the Royal Navy.

Have fired Shotguns on my Cousins Farm and 2.2 Rifle, but unlike him I would never kill a rabbit or deer with said firearms.

It is a bit of a thrill shooting a gun, my favourite was a handgun in the Navy.

Xenophon PCDGS · 16 Feb 2018

The thread title of "UK attitude to firearms" should be aware of the gang culture in major cities where guns are just one of the offensive weapons they use. It is not so very long ago that Manchester was known as "Gunchester" and there is always a ready supply available.

Aussie_Rail · 16 Feb 2018

I have fired a gun, seen a gun and held a gun.

While Australia does have very tough gun ownership laws, it only took one mass shooting (Port Arthur, Tasmania, 1996) here for the Government to act swiftly and implement a range of new ownership laws, buy back schemes, amnesties and rigorous checks to which there has not been a mass shooting of that magnitude since.

I have been to professional shooting ranges and have fired various firearms. That also includes clay pigeon shooting, one my friends won Gold for Australia at Rio for shooting. One of my mates owns an Australian ANZAC rifle that was used at Galipoli in World War I. Quite an impressive and historically rich weapon.

All of our Police and Protective Services Officers carry Glock pistols and from time to time crimes are committed where guns are used, but unlike the US, there is no national obsession with guns, if you are seen in the street with one, people will run for cover and the Police will come in great numbers and chat to you, its totally different here. I think gun ownership is probably more widespread here than the UK, but the US mentality isn't here. Thankfully.

GusB · 16 Feb 2018

A couple of years ago it was reported that police officers in the Highlands were routinely carrying firearms, and I have to admit that I felt very uncomfortable. Those who live in the big cities may have become accustomed to seeing armed police on a regular basis, but it's definitely not something we're used to here.

I live near RAF Lossiemouth and Kinloss Barracks, but there's a big difference between a gate guard wielding a rifle and seeing lethal weapons being carried down the High Street. It's a rural area and farmers keep shotguns, but these are controlled environments.

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13160001.Highlands_row_over_armed_police/

POLICE officers are now regularly carrying firearms while supporting colleagues on normal duties in the Highlands, in a major departure from the established approach to policing.

The Highlands and Islands MSP who discovered the move, which followed the creation of a single police force last year, is to raise the issue in Holyrood and with the Chief Constable of Police Scotland Stephen House.

John Finnie, the Independent MSP for the Highlands and Islands who was a police officer and a full-time elected official of the Scottish Police Federation (SPF), said it was a "worrying development".

Officers can be armed when keeping a watching brief on customers dispersing from night clubs in the early hours of the morning, it has emerged.

GB · 16 Feb 2018

Thread title should be changed to experiences rather than attitude imo.

AlterEgo · 16 Feb 2018

Iskra said:
Me too, target rifles and the L98, but in all honesty I think shooting on a range is one of the most boring things going, a very overrated activity. I can see that hunting or clay pigeon shooting could be more interesting but they aren't my cup of tea. Give me Aerobatics in a Grob over that any day!

This!

I was also an air cadet and had the same shooting experiences. Boring as hell, I couldn’t hit a barn door either.

The experience did teach me about how dangerous rifles are. Once you’ve fired one, you understand how they can put a hole right through someone.

najaB · 16 Feb 2018

Paul Sidorczuk said:
The thread title of "UK attitude to firearms" should be aware of the gang culture in major cities where guns are just one of the offensive weapons they use. It is not so very long ago that Manchester was known as "Gunchester" and there is always a ready supply available.

While it is disturbing how many guns are on the streets and in the hands of criminals (both of the gang and non-gang variety) it is still the case that in the UK you are more likely to be clubbed or stabbed in a random street crime than shot. The same is not true in many parts of the world. Most victims of gang violence are rival gang members.

PeterC · 16 Feb 2018

AlterEgo said:
This!

I was also an air cadet and had the same shooting experiences. Boring as hell, I couldn’t hit a barn door either.

The experience did teach me about how dangerous rifles are. Once you’ve fired one, you understand how they can put a hole right through someone.

I went to one of the few state schools to have a CCF. Range days could be boring and usually cold but we had an indoor .22 range and I did enjoy using that as we were in smaller groups with little hanging about.

I remember a regular sergeant demonstrating how blank rounds weren't safe by putting a tin can over the barrel of a Lee-Enfield and blowing the bottom out with the wadding from a blank.

thejuggler · 16 Feb 2018

I’ve done clay pigeon shooting and before the handgun ban did a session on a shooting range with a colleague.

I Couldn’t get excited about any of it.

My wife visits her US office occasionally and on the last visit some of the staff took her shooting. Loaded the cars up with lots of guns, drove an hour out of town, set up a range and blasted the hell out of some old IT equipment.

She didn’t get it, probably because she didn’t grow up in an environment where buying kids their first gun is an ‘occasion’.

TheEdge · 16 Feb 2018

EM2 said:
No. They aren't classed as firearms.

Nerf guns perhaps not but I'd argue airsoft RIFs are closer to a true firearm than a toy, down to the fact that special dispensation was made in the VCRA 2006 to allow their continued use in the UK, valid defense is needed to buy them and if I were to modify one of mine to fire above a certain muzzle velocity (I forget exactly what but the red line is worked out in joules on the projectile), which would be easy if I dropped in a powerful enough spring in, they would become a Section 5 firearm.

As to them introducing a casual attitude towards guns I'd argue they don't. They really are not treated causally, right now I have a two shotguns, a pistol, an SMG and an assault rifle. They are all kept in hard cases out of sight, when I transport them they must be in an opaque bag or box and not visible to the public, I must have a reason to be carrying them, they are treated as if they are real.

Essan · 16 Feb 2018

Well I'm another who fired .22 rifles in the Air Cadets - and handled, but I don't recall actually firing, .303s. I quite enjoyed shooting away on the firing range as a 14 year old

But my mate was better than me

Encountering stalkers on the hill with rifles is about as scary as seeing a cup cake. But I don't think I'd feel at all comfortable seeing policement carrying weapons - something I've not actually yet seen in real life (we only see an unarmed policeman on the streets once a year here if we're lucky!

)

As for owning a gun myself - nearest I ever came to that was an air rifle as a teenager. Long since gone. Why would I want a gun? To shoot sparrows?

Butts · 16 Feb 2018

Essan said:
Well I'm another who fired .22 rifles in the Air Cadets - and handled, but I don't recall actually firing, .303s. I quite enjoyed shooting away on the firing range as a 14 year old But my mate was better than me

The Air Cadets were a fantastic organisation (well at least 40 years ago !!!)

As previously mentioned shooting .22 and .303 ....plus

Gliding .... at Old Sarum in my case

Air Experience Flying in a Chipmunk at Hamble - often with WWII veteran on the joystick - "I have control sir" - anyone remember that.

Helicopter Flight in a Wessex

Also Annual Camps in the UK and abroad ....Germany and Malta in my case.

You could actually get your "wings" for a Glider or Aircraft with scholarships available.

For a lot of miscreants first exposure to illegal smoking and drinking.....

Wonder what the ATC is like today ?

Essan · 16 Feb 2018

My ATC "career" was cut short when we moved house and were then too far away from the nearest squadron for me to continue .... So I never got the gliding or any overseas camps. But the first time I ever flew was in a Chipmunk (Marshall airfield - now Cambridge airport - in my case).

Butts · 16 Feb 2018

Essan said:
My ATC "career" was cut short when we moved house and were then too far away from the nearest squadron for me to continue .... So I never got the gliding or any overseas camps. But the first time I ever flew was in a Chipmunk (Marshall airfield - now Cambridge airport - in my case).

At the time I didn't appreciate it, but thinking back it was privilege to taken up by the same men who flew Lancaster Bombers. Hurricanes and Spitfires in Combat during the war.

Similarly with the shooting on visiting Longmore (An Army Camp) there would have been some D-Day veterans instructing you.

TheEdge · 16 Feb 2018

I got glider wings in my schools CCF RAF. A week intense course at Hullavington.

GB · 16 Feb 2018

TheEdge said:
Nerf guns perhaps not but I'd argue airsoft RIFs are closer to a true firearm than a toy, down to the fact that special dispensation was made in the VCRA 2006 to allow their continued use in the UK, valid defense is needed to buy them and if I were to modify one of mine to fire above a certain muzzle velocity (I forget exactly what but the red line is worked out in joules on the projectile), which would be easy if I dropped in a powerful enough spring in, they would become a Section 5 firearm.

As to them introducing a casual attitude towards guns I'd argue they don't. They really are not treated causally, right now I have a two shotguns, a pistol, an SMG and an assault rifle. They are all kept in hard cases out of sight, when I transport them they must be in an opaque bag or box and not visible to the public, I must have a reason to be carrying them, they are treated as if they are real.

Power limit for air/spring rifle 12ft.lb and for air/spring pistol 6ft.lb if I recall correctly.

Yew · 16 Feb 2018

I've held a few guns, at an Army recruitment stand, and have fired either air rifles or .22s.

When I'm a little more established, and can store it safely and legally, I would consider taking up some sort of shooting sport (range, clays or something), but not any form of hunting. I do watch a few firearm-based youtube channels, generally looking at historical and engineering aspects, with some actual shooting to make points.

Darandio · 16 Feb 2018

I've held and fired a rifle once on a school trip to Strensall Barracks many years ago. All I can recall is that we had to lie down in order to fire, it was some sort of indoor range with a target that seemed miles away. I've no idea what type of firearm it was, but I do know it was bloody heavy and had one hell of a kick! I also believe I missed.

61653 HTAFC · 16 Feb 2018

Answered "seen a gun", initially thinking of the armed copper stood outside Huddersfield station the day after the Westminster vehicle attack. I then read the OP and saw that this didn't apply, though I do recall seeing a group of youths messing about with what appeared to be a handgun on the Sunray Estate (near Malden Manor station) though they were some distance away and it was probably an imitation firearm or airsoft-type thing.

The UK attitude to firearms

Which of the following applies (choose all that apply)

Owned a gun

Fired a gun

Held a gun

Seen a gun

None of these

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