• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

West Midlands Day Ranger: No Longer Valid on VT?

Status
Not open for further replies.

superalbs

Established Member
Joined
3 Jul 2014
Messages
2,469
Location
Exeter
I recently planned a trip to do a West Midlands Day Ranger, noting that all TOCs (even Northern) are valid to use it with.

However, someone has now brought it to my attention that the ticket is not valid on Virgin Trains WC services, updated on 19th February 2018.
upload_2018-2-25_11-42-22.png

Is this an error, or will the ticket still be able to use on VT?

Thanks.
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ForTheLoveOf

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2017
Messages
6,416
Network West Midlands' website either does not agree with this, or it has not been updated yet. If you bought the ticket, having specifically asked if it was valid on VTWC and were told it was, you would be fine. If you were worried, you could ask them to endorse the ticket on the reverse, saying it was valid on VTWC.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,678
Location
Redcar
It's a mistake surely?
The West Midlands Family Day Ranger (same area) still includes VT - on National Rail Enquiries at least:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/149086.aspx

The image from the OP was actually from that page and it did not show VT when I checked a few minutes after the thread was posted. It now does but still only shows 19th Feb revision date. I can only assume there was a mistake and they have either seen this thread or someone else brought it to their attention.

Edit*

Actually it wasn't, different page showing different things: http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/pr9cb0cc0a040004006ad8690e40c16f.aspx
 

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,253
Location
Yorkshire
I seem to recall this being a long standing omission. I am sure when I first used a WMDR back in 2010/2011, VT wasn't listed then
 

AM9

Veteran Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
14,265
Location
St Albans
Actually, the link in post #4 refers to a 'West Midlands Family Day Ranger' with VT included, whereas the link in post #5 refers to a 'West Midlands Day Ranger' without any mention of VT. So maybe it is an enhancement for families only.

There are now two different Ranger tickets, see here:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/rangers_and_rovers.aspx

Will the next thing be XC discriminating between different types of railcards?
 

roversfan2001

Established Member
Joined
19 Feb 2016
Messages
1,666
Location
Lancashire
Actually, the link in post #4 refers to a 'West Midlands Family Day Ranger' with VT included, whereas the link in post #5 refers to a 'West Midlands Day Ranger' without any mention of VT. So maybe it is an enhancement for families only.

That's highly unlikely to be deliberate. I can't think of any reason why VT would accept the family ticket but not the solo ticket.
 

jkdd77

Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
559
The section of the NRE relating to Rovers and Rangers is hopeless; often with incorrect or different pricing, ticket descriptions (for example, referring to Cheap Day Returns 10 years after they were rebranded) and, as here, route maps, relative to other official sources, such as TOC own websites and local PTE websites.

Indeed, there are so many errors, including the anomaly of the apparent differential validity between 'West Midland Day Rangers' and 'West Midland Family Day Rangers' that a passenger could reasonably conclude that an omission of a TOC from the supposed 'list of participating operators' is just yet another error or omission, rather than a definitive statement of (in)validity.

The NRCoT states:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/Conditions of Travel 2016.pdf
13.3 Your Ticket may show that it is valid only on certain train services, such as those of a particular Train Company, or on trains travelling via a certain route or routes. If no specific route or Train Company is shown, then (subject to any time restrictions for the type of fare you have purchased) it will be valid on:
a) any direct train service between the station(s) shown on your Ticket;
b) by any services (including any change of trains) over the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services between the stations shown on your Ticket;
c) any other routes as shown in the ‘National Routeing Guide’.

Since no such restriction is shown on the ticket, which is routed "Any Permitted", my view is that the ticket is contractually valid on all franchised operators, subject only to published time restrictions, and that a franchised TOC cannot "refuse to accept" such tickets any more than they can "refuse to accept" CDRs or SVRs.

Even if I am incorrect in this belief, it is clear from the differing information from different official sources that there is considerable ambiguity as to the terms of the contract entered into, and the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and the principle of contra proferentem both mean that the customer is entitled to the benefit of the most favourable interpretation of the terms of the contract for travel.
 

MidnightFlyer

Veteran Member
Joined
16 May 2010
Messages
12,857
I see the WM Day Ranger map now shows Kenilworth on it.

But not Coventry Arena or Bermuda Park!

I always try and find a second source in addition to NRE if I am doing ranger or rover tickets. I see the Cheshire Day Ranger map still omits the line via Woodley for example, in direct contradiction to Northern's own literature.
 

LNW-GW Joint

Veteran Member
Joined
22 Feb 2011
Messages
19,670
Location
Mold, Clwyd
The Cheshire and Lancashire Day Rangers still show VT as a participating operator, and there's surely no reason to discriminate with the West Mids version.
In fact, they are the only operator on Crewe-Warrington which is on the Cheshire route map.
The Lancashire map still hasn't been updated to include Manchester-Wigan via Golborne, more than 4 years after services started.
The confusion on WMDR is that every VT route on the map is also travelled by another operator.
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
19,260
Location
West of Andover
Actually, the link in post #4 refers to a 'West Midlands Family Day Ranger' with VT included, whereas the link in post #5 refers to a 'West Midlands Day Ranger' without any mention of VT. So maybe it is an enhancement for families only.

There are now two different Ranger tickets, see here:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/rangers_and_rovers.aspx

Will the next thing be XC discriminating between different types of railcards?

They already do by not accepting the Gold card in the larger area (north of Banbury)
 

IanXC

Emeritus Moderator
Joined
18 Dec 2009
Messages
6,338
They already do by not accepting the Gold card in the larger area (north of Banbury)

Gold Card is getting a bit off topic, but given the context of London Midland extending the area I think its a bit unfair to criticise XC as if they have purposely reduced the validity area.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top