Hi all, I know that 150 workings aren't that rare, since I occasionally see one coupled to a 158, and I've managed to catch one a few times too. However, I was walking home yesterday on a path alongside the WCML at Tipton station, and I was passed by a singular ATW 150 working, presumably to Birmingham International. How rare would this working be? I'm guessing it's standing in for a 2-car 158 working, but wouldn't the 75mph top speed limit it slightly, especially when it comes to the paths along the WCML?
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Arriva Trains Wales 150 to Birmingham
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PHILIPE
Veteran Member
They should all be 4 Cars (2x158) so would appear to be short of units and couldn't provide neither 158 nor 4 Cars. What time was it, please ? It would then be possible to identify the actual service and then provide some more detailed information.
Apart from the odd late night/early morning service, ATW use the Chester/Shrewsbury/Wolverhampton route to reach Birmingham New St, and not the WCML.
I just checked with Real Time Trains, and it was the 1733 Shrewsbury to Birmingham International (1G55). I guess that's why a 158 wasn't needed, since it didn't run along the Cambrian Line.
The WCML also runs from Stafford through to Wolverhampton, Birmingham New Street, Birmingham International and onwards.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
That throws some light on it now, 1G55 normally run from the Cambrian but there was Engineering Work yesterday between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth so staring at Shrewsbury would explain things.
Indeed, but I doubt a 150 would be unable to keep up with other services on the Wolverhampton/New St/ International section, and, as far as I know, ATW go no further than Birmingham International.
Actually yeah, thinking about it, 75mph wouldn't be too restrictive considering I don't think the line speed's much, if at all, higher than that anyway, plus when you consider the average speed of something like a 323 or 350 on a local service isn't going to be doing that high of an average speed.
I've seen that a few times, and even been on one between Wolverhampton and Birmingham a few times, however that's still working in multiple with a 158, which I understand isn't that rare to see, whereas I saw just a singular 2-car 150 working the Shrewsbury to Birmingham International yesterday.
Another factor to consider..... there was weekend engineering between NWP and CDF so perhaps there were displaced / trapped sets east/north of Newport that needed to be utelised vice "normal" stock. Although it's not unusual for 150s to be pressed into service on weekends vice 175s or 158s - ever done the trip from CDF to HHD on one?
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
That is a booked working on a Sunday morning attached to a 158
Great_Western
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Had a quick look on our pager messages and I can't find an actual reason why it happened in this case. However it appears 150231 made a few trips to Birmingham on Saturday.
I doubt any 158's would have been trapped the wrong side of Newport as I believe only 1 set is booked to stay in Canton overnight and I presume that went back North attached to the 20:17 from Cardiff on Friday as usually happens when units need repositioning for the weekend.
Never been on a 150 through to Holyhead, although I did once do the entire 6 hours and 20 minutes on 150281 with the 17:20 from Crewe to Cardiff via the HOWL. Had the train to myself between Llandrindod and Swansea, but despite how empty it was, over 6 hours on a 150 is enough for anyone.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Purely and simply short of units, 158s stopped, 175s out of action due fires, tree bashing. So it comes down to the 150 workhorses deputising on a daily basis which includes frequent non-diagrammed trips to Birmingham with not very convenient changing over of trains at Shrewsbury on the way back due to having to swap the 150 out of a Cambrian train.
STKKK46
Member
Surely it would have been worth updating the 150s with the correct equipment to use the Cambrian, or am I missing something blatantly obvious which doesn’t allow this to happen?
bramling
Veteran Member
Cost plus potentially units unavailable during development / fitment presumably. No doubt it could be done if the need was deemed great enough.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
And also wanted to keep Machynlleth and Pwllheli traction knowledge confined to 158s. If there was availability every day and all diagrams were able to be maintained there would be sufficient 158s. As bramling said, cost.
STKKK46
Member
All makes sense, I suppose. The 158s are great for that route and it’s a pleasure to travel on them anyway.
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
I forgot to say earlier that the speeds of 150s are lower so would have to time at 75 max rather than 90 max on appropriate sections.
craigybagel
Established Member
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Shrewsbury - Wolves is 70MPH max and Wolves to New Street is 75MPH so no major disadvantage with speed . New Street to International does get up to 110 at one point but given how long it takes a DMU, be that 150 158 or even 175 it really doesn't make a huge difference to the timings, especially when you take into account congestion (and on a Sunday the AW service usually follows close behind a stopping train anyway).
Which still causes trouble whenever a 150 turns up on one of the 3 daily round trips worked by Machynlleth guards between Shrewsbury and International as that don't sign them! Thankfully though, most of the time a 150 goes that way it's on a Sunday and Mach don't work any of the Sunday trips.
But given max speed on the Cambrian is only 80MPH IIRC that's not likely to make a whole lot of difference anyway? 150s hold up surprisingly well even when they're working to 175 timings.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Last October I had a 150 from Llandudno Junction to Birmingham (pair of 150s to Chester, single 150 to Shrewsbury when it attached to a 158). IIRC it kept to time even with the detachment at Chester, only lost time at World's End due to crowding [after-all there is only one set of doors available to be used, those other doors are mere imaginary].
At least the ATW 150s have a semi-suitable interior, it is better than a 3+2 high density interior found on other 150s
At least the ATW 150s have a semi-suitable interior, it is better than a 3+2 high density interior found on other 150s
LT3001
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Ive had a single 150 before working BHI-SHR as an Aberystwyth & Pwllheli, but pax just changed onto the 158 at Shrewsbury for Machynlleth, then another 158 if they needed Pwllheli whilst the 158 from Shrewsbury continued to Aberystwyth. the 150 ran straight back to Birmingham.
Llanigraham
On Moderation
I also believe there was inadequate alternator power available.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
This may be of interest, the Cambrian well before the days of ERTMS and when Class 150 units were the mainstay of Aberystwyth- Birmingham workings. Despite the destination display this unit at Machynlleth was forming an evening service to Brum which I was about to use back to Shrewsbury, August 1994.
LT3001
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The Centro liveried units got everywhere in the 90s. I recollect using one on the Manchester Airport-Skegness service.
Ash Bridge
Established Member
Yes they were very well travelled units weren't they, and always seemed well looked after particularly internally in those days too by comparison to say their more northerly counterparts.
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