Crewe Hub government paper March 2018

yorksrob · 10 Mar 2018

All the alternative proposals for Crewe seem to have involved putting a station further South than the existing one. As someone who has walked from the existing station to the town centre, it is far South enough already.

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driver_m · 10 Mar 2018

All Line Rover said:
There is a run-down, but not derelict, platform a short distance behind platform 12 - fenced off to the public, but frequented by people who are, presumably, FOC staff. Is this the mooted "platform 13"?

Yes, that's the platform.

Holly · 10 Mar 2018

MarkyT said:
Near the existing main footbridge, it is approx. 60m from the old platform #13 face to the up Manchester Independent line, not very far at all really and certainly not worth moving the alignment to reduce I agree. It's only about three coach lengths and perfectly acceptable if the walkway is sufficiently protected and attractively designed. What I can't tell for sure is if the Independents are level for a train length in that vicinity. I assume they probably do stay at the same low level as the north junction underpass, as they also pass under the Shrewsbury line bridge south of the station. With such a new platform site on the Independent alignment, surely some sort of new ramped connection through the old depot area will be required to join to the Shrewsbury lines to the east of that bridge, or the trains would have to cross all the freight flows on the flat. New junction configuration would be required in either case. When you say one platform do you imply a single face or a new platform that could actually be an island between the two lines.

In that report is talk of a new transfer deck over the entire width of the station East to West. Presumably with passenger waiting areas and perhaps retail business on the station upper level.
I read that as meaning that, with some track realignment, there can be a narrow island platform with two faces on the Manchester independent lines. Realignment would seem to involve replacing earthen banking with a retaining wall.

What I do not understand in that report is this part:
Crewe station
3. ... Secretary of State has confirmed the Government’s support for the Crewe
Hub ... plans for HS2 Phase 2a will be modified to include:
...
a change to the design of the southern connection from HS2, so that HS2 joins
(and takes over) the central two lines on the existing network

- does the above mean that the existing up fast and down fast non-platform lines through the station would become unavailable to non-HS trainsets?

HSTEd · 11 Mar 2018

Joseph_Locke said:
Have you ever been to Crewe, or looked at it on a map? Do so, then tell me that moving all the main line tracks at Crewe 600mm further apart for over four miles, plus dealing with the issues with the station canopy, independent lines tunnels, some retaining walls in residential areas and at least one highway over bridge is "relatively minor" - or do you not know what UIC GC looks like?

Compared to an enormous transfer deck over the entire station, platform extensions with the associated throat remodelling and at least two substantial grade seperated junctions?
Slewing some lines inside the relatively broad formation, especially south of the station, is minor work compared to that.

Joseph_Locke said:
Who is tearing Crewe apart? Everything mentioned about the scheme so far suggests that the usual cheap half a job will be the order of the day; 1985 all over again.

They are going to be ripping the station to pieces and putting it back together again to make half of this stuff happen anyway. You don't just build a transfer deck without major structural works in the station itself.

Holly · 11 Mar 2018

Joseph_Locke said:
Have you ever been to Crewe, or looked at it on a map? Do so, then tell me that moving all the main line tracks at Crewe 600mm further apart for over four miles, plus dealing with the issues with the station canopy, independent lines tunnels, some retaining walls in residential areas and at least one highway over bridge is "relatively minor" - or do you not know what UIC GC looks like?
Who is tearing Crewe apart? Everything mentioned about the scheme so far suggests that the usual cheap half a job will be the order of the day; 1985 all over again.

HSTEd said:
Compared to an enormous transfer deck over the entire station, platform extensions with the associated throat remodelling and at least two substantial grade seperated junctions?
Slewing some lines inside the relatively broad formation, especially south of the station, is minor work compared to that. ...

One possibility would be to make Platform 13, and only Platform 13 UIC GC. Plus UIC GC clearances North of the station up to the HS junction - but not in Phase 2a, only in Phase 2b. Doing that would add considerable flexibility, especially in times of engineering possessions.

The Planner · 11 Mar 2018

Holly said:
In that report is talk of a new transfer deck over the entire width of the station East to West. Presumably with passenger waiting areas and perhaps retail business on the station upper level.
I read that as meaning that, with some track realignment, there can be a narrow island platform with two faces on the Manchester independent lines. Realignment would seem to involve replacing earthen banking with a retaining wall.

Its a single platform face on the Independents, Driver_m alluded to the transfer deck with the reduction of the bay lengths, the transfer deck is planned to be where the southern bays are now from what I hear.

What I do not understand in that report is this part:
Crewe station
3. ... Secretary of State has confirmed the Government’s support for the Crewe
Hub ... plans for HS2 Phase 2a will be modified to include:
...
a change to the design of the southern connection from HS2, so that HS2 joins
(and takes over) the central two lines on the existing network

- does the above mean that the existing up fast and down fast non-platform lines through the station would become unavailable to non-HS trainsets?

No.

Gareth Marston · 11 Mar 2018

The Planner said:
Its a single platform face on the Independents, Driver_m alluded to the transfer deck with the reduction of the bay lengths, the transfer deck is planned to be where the southern bays are now from what I hear.
.

How's that going to effect minimum transfer times?

It's a bit like reopening one platform at Manchester Mayfield and diverting the Mid Cheshire lines trains from the trainshed in Piccadily in terms of convenience.

If the Manchester to Cardiff services get different paths from / to Manchester it might be worth it. We currently have 40 minute waits in both directions at Shrewsbury for connections between Manchester/Cambrian.

Crewe Hub government paper March 2018

yorksrob

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