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We've got the Key, it's no secret... (Smartcards on GTR)
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Yes railcard discounts for daily tickets should already be available but is only available on Southern journeys. Not all ticket types are available on The Key.
One thing to remember about Smart Cards is that you cannot break your journey and continue later.
On Oyster you also have a time limit to complete your journey.
Smart Cards are ok if card readers are working however it will occur quite often that there is card reader trouble and then the revenue people will issue a penalty fare as they have found your card 'unactivated'.
I wouldn't trust these cards yet for one off tickets as I have friends who always get incomplete journeys on oyster and thus a penalty fare generated by the system. Real hassle to get it sorted over the phone.
I would stick to the paper ticket! Much less hassle.
One thing to remember about Smart Cards is that you cannot break your journey and continue later.
On Oyster you also have a time limit to complete your journey.
Smart Cards are ok if card readers are working however it will occur quite often that there is card reader trouble and then the revenue people will issue a penalty fare as they have found your card 'unactivated'.
I wouldn't trust these cards yet for one off tickets as I have friends who always get incomplete journeys on oyster and thus a penalty fare generated by the system. Real hassle to get it sorted over the phone.
I would stick to the paper ticket! Much less hassle.
*always* get incomplete journeys? A station with reader problems or just not bothering to use the readers if the gates are locked open.
Certainly is not a question of not bothering ... This is specific to oyster - with so many people getting through the gates (especially when the gates are open for example Wembley Park at sporting events, Covent Garden theatre chucking out times or during service disruption when you enter and exit within a few minutes,) it does happen that your card does not always get read properly - you do hear the bleep but with so many other people using cards you cannot always be sure it is yours as they all sound the same.
I suggest that you do try for yourself - there is nothing better than actual user experience. It will happen to you one day ... almost guaranteed. Yes errors do occur but is the hassle that nobody tells you about that you need to go through to get matters put right. 20+ minutes on the phone is not uncommon. An orange ticket is much easier - no penalty fare and peace of mind.
I suggest that you do try for yourself - there is nothing better than actual user experience. It will happen to you one day ... almost guaranteed. Yes errors do occur but is the hassle that nobody tells you about that you need to go through to get matters put right. 20+ minutes on the phone is not uncommon. An orange ticket is much easier - no penalty fare and peace of mind.
Hmm,will they be available soon?
KeyGo would be very useful to me at the moment as I'm making lots of journeys that go beyond my season ticket validity. But only if it knew I had a Gold Card discount. Until then, I can't use it.
Surely it isn't hard for the system to know about railcards and to calculate the correct fare?
I'm also still at a loss to understand why standard single and return fares work on Southern but not Thameslink. Did they install a different system? Or does some problem arise from trying to implement single and return fares on opposite sides of the London travelcard area?
Either way, it's been years now since the first introduction on Southern. Surely in that time, they could have got all ticket types working if they wanted to.
Surely it isn't hard for the system to know about railcards and to calculate the correct fare?
I'm also still at a loss to understand why standard single and return fares work on Southern but not Thameslink. Did they install a different system? Or does some problem arise from trying to implement single and return fares on opposite sides of the London travelcard area?
Either way, it's been years now since the first introduction on Southern. Surely in that time, they could have got all ticket types working if they wanted to.
So, I've been using KeyGo for a couple of weeks, and it's worked well. In theory, it's great for me. Irregular travel, peak time (so no railcard) and I don't always know if I'll need a return half or even will end up going somewhere different.
But it's worked great. Avoided those awful ticket queues at Biggleswade, and it's even calculated the best fares taking advantage of break of journey and everything. But...
The card reader at Biggleswade on "my" side of the bridge was broken for a couple of months. They eventually fixed it. Or did they? Turns out that, although I'd been getting a "journey ended" message on tapping out, it hadn't registered on my account. Thankfully, I'd noticed before a penalty fare was charged (you get the opportunity to complete the journey online - a limited number of times).
Fingers crossed it gets resolved. And the machine properly fixed. Doesn't inspire confidence. Never once had this issue with OV-Chipkaart or Rejsekort (well, not without it being my fault...)
But it's worked great. Avoided those awful ticket queues at Biggleswade, and it's even calculated the best fares taking advantage of break of journey and everything. But...
The card reader at Biggleswade on "my" side of the bridge was broken for a couple of months. They eventually fixed it. Or did they? Turns out that, although I'd been getting a "journey ended" message on tapping out, it hadn't registered on my account. Thankfully, I'd noticed before a penalty fare was charged (you get the opportunity to complete the journey online - a limited number of times).
Fingers crossed it gets resolved. And the machine properly fixed. Doesn't inspire confidence. Never once had this issue with OV-Chipkaart or Rejsekort (well, not without it being my fault...)
I know what I said after my last attempt with the KEY (see above) - but the failure rate on paper tickets is now becoming SO INTOLERABLE that I am once again considering the possibility of using the KEY (I went through more than 50 paper tickets in 2017 and 2018 seems to be getting worse - none of my paper tickets have lasted longer than a week and the last three have worked ONCE on the way in at Huntingdon and then failed on the way out).
Before I do this, however, does anyone know it they have fixed the issue with London Underground so that London Underground will accept The Key on the inter-available routes between Finsbury Park/Moorgate/Kings Cross St Pancras yet? Does the Key permit you to change from National Rail at Kings Cross and then travel by London Underground to Moorgate as you can with a paper season ticket?
KatieLouLou
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- 20 Oct 2014
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Well mine has let me out at Kings Cross having traveled via the Victoria Line from Highbury (and it works at Moorgate and Old Street anyway).
I've found it to be really intermittent - some good years and bad years - despite no changes in use or storage. I've had mag stripe tickets last all year; and ones that barely lasted a week. And certainly years when multiple replacements have been required (50 is the extreme end by anyone's standards though). However, if my ticket goes quickly in the past, I've tended to resort to just showing my ticket at the gate instead of getting it replaced so, personally, would never have racked up 50 replacements.
MikeyL - I experimented with the key first. Just order one for a weekly ticket to use between season tickets and see how it goes. I did a week, and then a month. Then annual again.
It's not flawless but seems to be getting better. And is better than the paper hassle. I've had a couple of times it doesn't work on the bus despite travelcard. Doesn't always work the gates - but probably the gate at fault - if you make sure there is an orange light first it's usually fine. If it does work the gate, the tap isn't always captured online etc.
cjohnson
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- 3 Sep 2009
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- 597
My thoughts on using "the key" after almost 9 months so far:
Moved last year from inner London, to commuting from an outside London Southern-operated station (but the services I use are mainly operated by SWT) - which meant saying goodbye to my trusty Oyster card.
After my new paper Gold Card $station-z1-6 season failed five times within three months, on the 6th replacement attempt was told by the helpful ticket office that I could transfer my $station-z1-6 ticket to a "the key" smartcard, which was done and ready to collect within a few days, with the staff at local Southern station being very helpful in processing the transfer.
On the other hand, my better half transferred her paper season ticket at the same station some months later, and was met with a much more begrudging response saying "they're only doing this new smart card stuff to put us out of a job" and it took around 3 weeks. Lovely customer service.
Annoyances so far are:
Moved last year from inner London, to commuting from an outside London Southern-operated station (but the services I use are mainly operated by SWT) - which meant saying goodbye to my trusty Oyster card.
After my new paper Gold Card $station-z1-6 season failed five times within three months, on the 6th replacement attempt was told by the helpful ticket office that I could transfer my $station-z1-6 ticket to a "the key" smartcard, which was done and ready to collect within a few days, with the staff at local Southern station being very helpful in processing the transfer.
On the other hand, my better half transferred her paper season ticket at the same station some months later, and was met with a much more begrudging response saying "they're only doing this new smart card stuff to put us out of a job" and it took around 3 weeks. Lovely customer service.
Annoyances so far are:
- Takes longer to operate barriers (especially Tube gates) - I thought the ever so slight delay on Oyster vs Contactless was bad, but the Key/ITSO seems to be worse
- Constant nagging emails saying "you have not completed the journey" from GTR if they think I haven't touched out appropriately (not my fault if your readers are turned off!)
- Seemingly unable to get a Gold Card discount on a "smart" ticket added at a GTR TVM; when it offers 16/25, SR, Network Railcard, HM and DP discounts. The Gold Card discount option was greyed out on the TVM as "not available at this time" [was c.2pm on a weekday]. If I had bought a ticket and added it to my key with the Network Railcard discount option (but holding a Gold Card) what would the consequences be...?
BlueHorizonUK
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- 21 Mar 2018
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- 11
Hello,
A few questions please:
1) Did a journey from Hatfield to Kings Cross and it charged it correctly at £10.10 and no issue.
2) Did a journey from Hatfield to Finsbury Park and it charged £5.10 and got an email that there was a incomplete journey. Looking at the history if charged Hatfield to Hadley Wood (Anytime Day Single) and then Hadley Wood to Finsbury Park (Smart Payg Misuse). So it has the whole journey but for some reason has split the journey even though I never got off the train until Finsbury Park. How do I fix this as I get a message to complete a journey but for the life of me I cant see where to do it.
3) Are there specific card readers on the way down from the platforms at Finsbury Park (the ones that dont have ticket barriers) to use to tap on as the first machine didn't work but walking along towards the staircase a reader beeped so assumed it was ok.
Thank you all
A few questions please:
1) Did a journey from Hatfield to Kings Cross and it charged it correctly at £10.10 and no issue.
2) Did a journey from Hatfield to Finsbury Park and it charged £5.10 and got an email that there was a incomplete journey. Looking at the history if charged Hatfield to Hadley Wood (Anytime Day Single) and then Hadley Wood to Finsbury Park (Smart Payg Misuse). So it has the whole journey but for some reason has split the journey even though I never got off the train until Finsbury Park. How do I fix this as I get a message to complete a journey but for the life of me I cant see where to do it.
3) Are there specific card readers on the way down from the platforms at Finsbury Park (the ones that dont have ticket barriers) to use to tap on as the first machine didn't work but walking along towards the staircase a reader beeped so assumed it was ok.
Thank you all
Made the mistake of adding keyGo to my Key Smartcard. This has rendered the whole card useless and I've had to revert to paper tickets until it gets sorted. What isn't obvious is that if you enable the service you can't load a season ticket onto the card until you've 'loaded' the keyGo service. On top of that you have to wait 2 hours before that season ticket can be loaded itself. Also it means you HAVE to tap in and out even if your season ticket covers your normal journey else you may get fined.
Not always possible at Kings Cross - occasionally all gates are open and not enabled - like yesterday (22/3/18) at 1800
What were Oyster and contactless credit/debit card users meant to do?
I don't think you can use those on Great Northern, at least not on the trains that I take.
You definitely can, Oyster is accepted on Great Northern for all stations up till Hadley Wood and Crews Hill.
Last edited:
Envy123
Member
Some semi-fast services from King's Cross do stop at New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet, all of which accept Oyster.
If you go round to the barriers nearest the concourse they usually enable the gates so you can touch in. Alternatively the barriers closest to P1-2 are usually enabled for touching in.
Hi Hadders - that thought had occurred to me and I have tried everything I can think of - to the point where it has almost become obsessional - so now I keep my paper ticket in its plastic National Rail wallet - and the only other thing that I keep with it is my Photocard. The wallet is then kept in my left hand coat pocket - with nothing else in the pocket. My Oyster card is kept separately, in my right hand coat pocket. My phone is also kept separately in my right hand trouser pocket. All other cards (with the exception of my office pass) are kept in my wallet, in my left hand trouser pocket. My office pass hangs around my neck. I have not changed either my Oyster Card or my Phone for several years.
I would also add that I have now been commuting over the same route on a daily basis for 28 years - and have never encounter this level of problems before - the frequency of failures last year (and this year) if FAR in excess of anything that I have EVER encountered before.
If you have any other suggestions on how to keep my ticket so as to avoid being "part of the problem" and reduce the frequency of failures, they will be gratefully received and duly tried out.............
ForTheLoveOf
Established Member
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- 7 Oct 2017
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- 6,416
I'll join the club of people who can't seem to get a working season ticket. I've had mine replaced twice and it's still not worked. I've just given up replacing it and instead queue at the attendant's gate. Always barrier code 09 - 'ticket can't be read'. I've not changed anything about the way I've kept my ticket since I started commuting a lot of years ago but this time it's simply never worked.
Sleepy
Established Member
It would seem Key for pay as you go is being promoted through Facebook etc. Has dft given them a slapped wrist for not achieving smart card useage at similar levels to other TOC'S ?
It's coming soon. And this week I heads about a new DfT initiative to make all TOC smartcards interoperable with other smartcards, apparently by the end of 2018.
Does any TOC have smartcard usage levels higher than Southern?
Believe minimum usage levels & advertising are a franchise commitment.
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