First West of England (Bristol, Bath & The West)

Colly405 · 15 Mar 2018

Class 33 said:
Very un-interesting changes then. And not impressed the 8 is increased from every 10 minutes to every 7 and a half(!!!) minutes, yet there's actually no changes to the 9 atall and it remains at every 30 minutes!! Was hoping it would have been increased to every 20 minutes.

I presume that's probably it for the Bristol changes. Roll on July for news of the hopefully more interesting September changes!

There are likely to be some significant changes when the M1 starts if First are running it.
Whilst as an enthusiast who likes poring over timetables, I like major changes, they aren't always good for the passengers, so a lack of significant changes could be construed as good news.

---

Took a 73 tonight during the Parkway closure. The publicised diversionary route is much closer to home so the driver said I could get off on the diversion.
I wasn't expecting though that the diversion isn't the one publicised (not just my journey but one going the opposite direction too).
Southbound, the 73 isn't turning at the roundabout by Tesco Express, as publicised, bib is doing a 3-point turn at the mini-roundabout at the North Rd junction. It then proceeds as advertised north along Hatchet Rd, east on Winterbourne Rd, south along Old Gloucester Rd bib then doesn't go west along Hambrook Lane. Instead it continues to the ring road, then heads west along it to the large Sainsbury's roundabout, north along Great Stoke Way, left onto Fox Den Rd, full around the roundabout by the main entrance to Friends Life, then normal route.
Going that way, I don't understand why it isn't using the Stoke Gifford Bypass.

Also saw a 19 heading north along Bradley Stoke Way approaching the Great Meadow roundabout (jn with Baileys Court Rd). Again, not the publicised diversion.

RailUK Forums

Stompehh · 16 Mar 2018

At every 7.5 mins is the 8 now the most frequent single route in Bristol? (I know there are many other routes with combined sections at a higher frequency, 75/76 etc)

TheGrandWazoo · 16 Mar 2018

Whiteway215 said:
I know it is probably common knowledge but I spoke to a First man in the know and it was confirmed all the B7 Airport buses are going to Westbury and the Streetlites back to Bath for the 4. Presumably farewell to the Bath Darts.

Those Bath Darts have been excellent servants. Delivered for the 5/13/14, they were then used to fill the gap from various Eclipses being pilfered from country routes.

I moved to the area in 2005 as they were being delivered. It’ll be odd when they and the Solos disappear.

Interesting Bath workings were 44524 and 32008 on the 4 and 42956 on the 37.

vicbury · 16 Mar 2018

freetoview33 said:
April Changes (Think this is most but not all)

3/4: Minor timetable changes, mainly to morning services, improved spacing, few extra/less services.
6/7: Timetable recast, frequency route remain unchanged. Sat Night/Sun morning trips on the 6 are back.
8/9: 8 is increased from every 10 mins to every 7.5 mins.
19/19A: Minor timetable changes, few trips brought forward by 5 mins and timing changes.
39/X39: Buses between 5am and 6am no longer serve Bath instead running from Newton-St-Low to Bristol. Saturday frequency increased from every 15 mins to every 12 mins.
44/45: Minor timetable changes.
48/48A/49/49A: 48A reduced from every 10 mins to every 20 mins for summer. New service 49A peak only Broadmead - Staple Hill.
70/71: Can't see any changes! Thought it would be a drop because of the summer.
126: One Mon-Fri college holiday service becomes year round.
172/3/4: Very minor timetable changes.
376: Can't see any change what so ever!
Bath 1: Mon-Fri Reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins (Other Minor Changes).
Bath 3/3A: 3 Fox Hill - Bathford (Every 20 mins), 3A: Fox Hill - Batheaston (Every 20 mins).
Bath 4: Minor changes to morning and evening services.
Bath 5: Route change to serve Whiteway Road in one direction and frequency reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins.
D1: 265 is renumbered D1.
D2: 267 is renumbered D2.
D3: 271/272 are renumbered D3.
Weston 1: Half Hourly reduced to Hourly in the Winter.
Weston 5: 5A withdrawn all services are now running as 5.

Commenting on the services I use or know well:

8/9: Excellent! Will more Streetlites be decorated with animals? Also, any change to the Sunday frequency?
39/X39: Pleased to see the increase in Saturday frequency - the retail / leisure markets in Bath and Bristol must be doing well
48/48A/49/49A: I wonder if the 49A will be summertime only and will be swapped back for the 48A in September?
Bath 4: Looks like this service now runs to Weston every 20 minutes until the final service. Quite a turnaround from when it was cut to every 40 minutes a few years ago!

vicbury · 16 Mar 2018

Whiteway215 said:
I know it is probably common knowledge but I spoke to a First man in the know and it was confirmed all the B7 Airport buses are going to Westbury and the Streetlites back to Bath for the 4. Presumably farewell to the Bath Darts.

What sort of condition are the long Streetlites like after years on the X39 and Wiltshire routes? I'd expect an increase in scrapes when they move to Bath - Eastfield Avenue in Weston and the RUH are pretty tight!

vicbury · 16 Mar 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
Those Bath Darts have been excellent servants. Delivered for the 5/13/14, they were then used to fill the gap from various Eclipses being pilfered from country routes.

I moved to the area in 2005 as they were being delivered. It’ll be odd when they and the Solos disappear.

Interesting Bath workings were 44524 and 32008 on the 4 and 42956 on the 37.

I remember when the Darts (and Solos / B7s) were new and I was amazed how noisy and rattly they were for brand new buses. The overhead ventilation systems were amazingly loud (fortunately not been working for many years now). The Solos and B7s were, and still are better buses! That said, the Darts had a great interior layout for routes such as the 4. I hope the Streetlites are similarly generous on buggy / wheelchair space.

WelshBluebird · 16 Mar 2018

freetoview33 said:
April Changes (Think this is most but not all)
39/X39: Buses between 5am and 6am no longer serve Bath instead running from Newton-St-Low to Bristol. Saturday frequency increased from every 15 mins to every 12 mins.
Bath 1: Mon-Fri Reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins (Other Minor Changes).

So just commenting on the two services I mainly use, I'm confused!
For the 39/X39, what on earth is the reason behind the change to not serve bath on the first buses of the day?
As for the 1, I can only assume that is either because of the summer or because of traffic being so bad in town that they are effectively that gap (or more) apart anyway (which is certainly the case quite a lot of the time!).

swifty · 16 Mar 2018

freetoview33 said:
April Changes (Think this is most but not all)

8/9: 8 is increased from every 10 mins to every 7.5 mins.

But only between 10am and 3pm, presumably by shortening the running time and tightening lay over times?

TheGrandWazoo · 16 Mar 2018

WelshBluebird said:
So just commenting on the two services I mainly use, I'm confused!
For the 39/X39, what on earth is the reason behind the change to not serve bath on the first buses of the day?
As for the 1, I can only assume that is either because of the summer or because of traffic being so bad in town that they are effectively that gap (or more) apart anyway (which is certainly the case quite a lot of the time!).

The 1 is probably due to fewer students in Oldfield Park so expect it’s a temporary change.

As for 39/X39 change, I’d suggest it’s because very few passengers (if any) join at Bath and tend to be more from Keynsham and Briz into Bristol. Hence, start them from Weston Island depot (which is why Newton St Loe is starting stage) and save £20 per shift.

TheGrandWazoo · 16 Mar 2018

vicbury said:
What sort of condition are the long Streetlites like after years on the X39 and Wiltshire routes? I'd expect an increase in scrapes when they move to Bath - Eastfield Avenue in Weston and the RUH are pretty tight!

They’re only 4.5 years old and tbh, they were only on the X39 for about 18 months or so.

Knowing both routes, might be easier to put them on the 3 and place the e200 on the 4.

freetoview33 · 16 Mar 2018

vicbury said:
Commenting on the services I use or know well:

8/9: Excellent! Will more Streetlites be decorated with animals? Also, any change to the Sunday frequency?
39/X39: Pleased to see the increase in Saturday frequency - the retail / leisure markets in Bath and Bristol must be doing well
48/48A/49/49A: I wonder if the 49A will be summertime only and will be swapped back for the 48A in September?
Bath 4: Looks like this service now runs to Weston every 20 minutes until the final service. Quite a turnaround from when it was cut to every 40 minutes a few years ago!

Sunday frequency on the 8 is not changing.

Whiteway215 · 16 Mar 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
They’re only 4.5 years old and tbh, they were only on the X39 for about 18 months or so.

Knowing both routes, might be easier to put them on the 3 and place the e200 on the 4.

I'm not sure of my facts here but the 3 in Bath for some years has been worked by shorter buses, 42552 batch, then 44520 etc. I know the current Darts also get on there but it's rare to see anything longer. The need for shorter buses may be the Elmhurst Estate part (which First Bath threatened to abandon because of parked cars) or it may be in the Foxhill Estate. Perhaps someone else is more in the know.

TheGrandWazoo · 16 Mar 2018

Whiteway215 said:
I'm not sure of my facts here but the 3 in Bath for some years has been worked by shorter buses, 42552 batch, then 44520 etc. I know the current Darts also get on there but it's rare to see anything longer. The need for shorter buses may be the Elmhurst Estate part (which First Bath threatened to abandon because of parked cars) or it may be in the Foxhill Estate. Perhaps someone else is more in the know.

Elmhurst is the tightest bit but will that be an issue in future depending how it is served. Foxhill is easy to get round.

In the past, the 4 had both SPDs but also the short e200s. Back in the day, both routes were no strangers to long Nationals.

freetoview33 · 17 Mar 2018

It has been confirmed by local Henbury councillors that the day time 76's will be extended from Crow Lane to Station Road from the September changes.
https://www.facebook.com/CllrMarkWeston/posts/1206767172789732

Class 33 · 17 Mar 2018

vicbury said:
Commenting on the services I use or know well:

8/9: Excellent! Will more Streetlites be decorated with animals? Also, any change to the Sunday frequency?

May well be excellent for users of the 8 and those who live in Clifton. But not excellent for users of the 9 and those who live in Redland, with the service remaining at only every half hour. Too many 8's and not enough 9's!

Yes there's the 72 too which shares the same route as the 9 between Redland Station and Temple Meads, giving a combined four services per hour. But at busy times like weekday mornings and evening, and Saturday afternoons, these services can be frequently very late. And people are left waiting for ages for a bus. Also at busy times the 9 and 72 can be frequently uncomfortably packed out too. Needs a frequency increase really.

The way I'd improve it is....

Keep the 9 and 72 as they are are at a half hour frequency.

Introduce a new service 9A. Which would be a shorter version of the 9. Temple Meads-Centre-Cotham-Redland, and terminating at Blackboy Hill Top - with some lay-over/recovery time. Every half hour. And with 9 and 72, it would mean six services per hour between Redland Station and Temple Meads, and ease over-crowding on the 9 and 72.

TheGrandWazoo · 17 Mar 2018

Class 33 said:
May well be excellent for users of the 8 and those who live in Clifton. But not excellent for users of the 9 and those who live in Redland, with the service remaining at only every half hour. Too many 8's and not enough 9's!

Yes there's the 72 too which shares the same route as the 9 between Redland Station and Temple Meads, giving a combined four services per hour. But at busy times like weekday mornings and evening, and Saturday afternoons, these services can be frequently very late. And people are left waiting for ages for a bus. Also at busy times the 9 and 72 can be frequently uncomfortably packed out too. Needs a frequency increase really.

The way I'd improve it is....

Keep the 9 and 72 as they are are at a half hour frequency.

Introduce a new service 9A. Which would be a shorter version of the 9. Temple Meads-Centre-Cotham-Redland, and terminating at Blackboy Hill Top - with some lay-over/recovery time. Every half hour. And with 9 and 72, it would mean six services per hour between Redland Station and Temple Meads, and ease over-crowding on the 9 and 72.

That might be your experience in peak but having been on the 9 during the off peak, it isn't particularly well patronised. I don't think it could sustain 6 bph, and if the issue is the reliability of the 72/9, then throwing more buses is perhaps not the solution. Deckers for the 72 might be more of a better bet.

TheGrandWazoo · 17 Mar 2018

In other news, 32284 was working the 376 last night. And today apparently - just passed it near Chelwood.

90sWereBetter · 17 Mar 2018

Streetdecks 35149 and 35150 are due to move to Norwich in the next few weeks. As far as I understand Norwich are also moving towards lilac fronts for "spare" buses, so this pair should fit right in after a while.

TheGrandWazoo · 17 Mar 2018

90sWereBetter said:
Streetdecks 35149 and 35150 are due to move to Norwich in the next few weeks. As far as I understand Norwich are also moving towards lilac fronts for "spare" buses, so this pair should fit right in after a while.

Kosher if from Chris Speed. Wonder on the longer term future of other Streetdecks with the 90 likely to be affected by Metrobus?

Class 33 · 17 Mar 2018

TheGrandWazoo said:
That might be your experience in peak but having been on the 9 during the off peak, it isn't particularly well patronised. I don't think it could sustain 6 bph, and if the issue is the reliability of the 72/9, then throwing more buses is perhaps not the solution. Deckers for the 72 might be more of a better bet.

Yes, I did think of that after I posted that. Six buses per hour OFF-PEAK wouldn't really be needed. But during the weekday peak morning and evening times, I think there could definitely do with additional services/increase in frequencies. As an example, I have a number of times seen the 72's at about 8:20am on weekdays approaching the Redland Station stop heading towards town absolutely rammed with people standing, and with a number of people waiting at the bus stop! Those people boarding(or hoping to board!) at that sort of time will have to make do with an uncomfortable standing journey, or even be left behind as the bus won't take any more people, and will have to wait till 8:39(presuming it turns up on time!) for the next 9. When the 72 was double deckers, I even saw these absolutely rammed at that sort of time in this area too.

Also at certain peak times, the scheduled times of the 9 & 72 aren't even every half hour, they are 35 or 40 minutes apart.

Double deckers on the 72 again, or additional services at peak times on the 9 & 72. Something needs to be done, as passengers in Redland get a bit of a raw deal compared to the service 8 for Clifton.

I'm also a bit baffled by the increase in frequency of the 8 to every 7/8 minutes from April. Yet this is only during off-peak times on services departing Temple Meads between 9:30 and 4pm(OK 4pm is about the beginning of the peak evening times, but still). Surely there won't be enough demand for eight services per hour on the 8 during off-peak times?? An increase in frequency at PEAK times I would have understood.

freetoview33 · 17 Mar 2018

It could just simply be the best use of a few buses off peak! Is it a problem with the 9 or 72 though? Redland did have 6 bph for ages with the 8/9 though. Redland is an odd one as it used to have a lot of buses with the 8/9/20/21/22 now much less. Trying to think what has changed that has cut demand and the only thing I can think of is Redland Green school, which has changed the demographics of the area.

DaveHarries · 18 Mar 2018

Class 33 said:
[.....]it would mean six services per hour between Redland Station and Temple Meads, and ease over-crowding on the 9 and 72.

As far as Redland to Temple Meads is concerned there is a train which could do that and takes less time: gets plenty of use too that station so why anyone would get a bus from Redland to Temple Meads is an odd one IMO.

Dave

Dai Corner · 18 Mar 2018

DaveHarries said:
As far as Redland to Temple Meads is concerned there is a train which could do that and takes less time: gets plenty of use too that station so why anyone would get a bus from Redland to Temple Meads is an odd one IMO.

Dave

The train is cheaper too.

Class 33 · 18 Mar 2018

DaveHarries said:
As far as Redland to Temple Meads is concerned there is a train which could do that and takes less time: gets plenty of use too that station so why anyone would get a bus from Redland to Temple Meads is an odd one IMO.

Dave

I did mean between Redland Station and Temple Meads, including Centre and Broadmead.

Yes there is the train. But this can be unreliable at times, due to it being a single track line(why an earth there are no future plans to re-double this line I don't know). If a service is late going the other way, then it usually means the service you want will be late too. And on some bad days there are numerous delays of 10, 15 minutes or more and cancellations. Also scheduled services can be up to 45 to 50 minutes apart, and less frequent again after 8pm. And only every hour on Sundays. And if you've got an early train to get from Temple Meads, services from Redland may well not be running early enough or suitable times for you to get that train from Temple Meads. This is especially the case on Sundays when the first train from Redland to Temple Meads isn't untill 1011!! No good if your train from Temple Meads is at 0900! So in these examples, it makes better sense or the only option is to get a bus instead(which can mean walking to Gloucester Road or Whiteladies Road and getting another bus instead as the 9 doesn't run early enough!)

TheGrandWazoo · 18 Mar 2018

Class 33 said:
I did mean between Redland Station and Temple Meads, including Centre and Broadmead.

Yes there is the train. But this can be unreliable at times, due to it being a single track line(why an earth there are no future plans to re-double this line I don't know). If a service is late going the other way, then it usually means the service you want will be late too. And on some bad days there are numerous delays of 10, 15 minutes or more and cancellations. Also scheduled services can be up to 45 to 50 minutes apart, and less frequent again after 8pm. And only every hour on Sundays. And if you've got an early train to get from Temple Meads, services from Redland may well not be running early enough or suitable times for you to get that train from Temple Meads. This is especially the case on Sundays when the first train from Redland to Temple Meads isn't untill 1011!! No good if your train from Temple Meads is at 0900! So in these examples, it makes better sense or the only option is to get a bus instead(which can mean walking to Gloucester Road or Whiteladies Road and getting another bus instead as the 9 doesn't run early enough!)

Surely if sufficient demand was there, First would be running services?

Also, if you double the tracks then you increase maintenance costs which is why many lines were singled in the first place.

THarris123 · 18 Mar 2018

freetoview33 said:
April Changes (Think this is most but not all)

3/4: Minor timetable changes, mainly to morning services, improved spacing, few extra/less services.
6/7: Timetable recast, frequency route remain unchanged. Sat Night/Sun morning trips on the 6 are back.
8/9: 8 is increased from every 10 mins to every 7.5 mins.
19/19A: Minor timetable changes, few trips brought forward by 5 mins and timing changes.
39/X39: Buses between 5am and 6am no longer serve Bath instead running from Newton-St-Low to Bristol. Saturday frequency increased from every 15 mins to every 12 mins.
44/45: Minor timetable changes.
48/48A/49/49A: 48A reduced from every 10 mins to every 20 mins for summer. New service 49A peak only Broadmead - Staple Hill.
70/71: Can't see any changes! Thought it would be a drop because of the summer.
126: One Mon-Fri college holiday service becomes year round.
172/3/4: Very minor timetable changes.
376: Can't see any change what so ever!
Bath 1: Mon-Fri Reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins (Other Minor Changes).
Bath 3/3A: 3 Fox Hill - Bathford (Every 20 mins), 3A: Fox Hill - Batheaston (Every 20 mins).
Bath 4: Minor changes to morning and evening services.
Bath 5: Route change to serve Whiteway Road in one direction and frequency reduced from every 10 mins to every 12 mins.
D1: 265 is renumbered D1.
D2: 267 is renumbered D2.
D3: 271/272 are renumbered D3.
Weston 1: Half Hourly reduced to Hourly in the Winter.
Weston 5: 5A withdrawn all services are now running as 5.

Sorry if any of this has been commented already.
376 - Mon-Fri - 19.31 to Bristol changed to 19.11 to allow more time in the evening.
173 - change of route. Will now head straight on in Chilcompton (instead of turning off at Redan) and turn off at junction with 174. Will then do loop around Norton same as 174.
126 - timing point change in Locking.
X39/39 - last 39 from Bath on Saturdays is 2am and last one from Bristol is 4am.

freetoview33 · 18 Mar 2018

There is now an earlier 4 from Cribbs Causeway - Broadmead at 04:54 (Mon - Fri) and 3 from Cribbs Causeway - Broadmead at 05:09 (Mon - Fri) but some later trips at 05:55 and 06:10 have merged into the 06:04 (4) and 05:50 and 06:00 have merged into the 05:54 (3) so much better spaced trips. And on Sunday a 4 from Cribbs at 08:10 currently there is a space from 07:10 - 09:15.

83G/84D · 18 Mar 2018

90sWereBetter said:
Streetdecks 35149 and 35150 are due to move to Norwich in the next few weeks. As far as I understand Norwich are also moving towards lilac fronts for "spare" buses, so this pair should fit right in after a while.

Streetdeck 35149 has arrived at Camborne over the weekend presumably for rail replacement services this week.

swifty · 18 Mar 2018

83G/84D said:
Streetdeck 35149 has arrived at Camborne over the weekend presumably for rail replacement services this week.

Both 35149/150 went via Taunton to Camborne today.

TheGrandWazoo · 18 Mar 2018

THarris123 said:
Sorry if any of this has been commented already.
376 - Mon-Fri - 19.31 to Bristol changed to 19.11 to allow more time in the evening.
173 - change of route. Will now head straight on in Chilcompton (instead of turning off at Redan) and turn off at junction with 174. Will then do loop around Norton same as 174.
126 - timing point change in Locking.
X39/39 - last 39 from Bath on Saturdays is 2am and last one from Bristol is 4am.

That 173 change would, of course, allow deckers to be utilised at any time on the Bath to Wells corridor. However, it is a little odd as it's being rerouted from the bottom of Chilcompton and Withies Park (where people live), and past the Rugby club and a couple of very large houses (where no f**ker lives). They could have simply sent it down Bakers Lane, the road before Fry's Well and the Redan!

Thanks to Swifty about the two Streetdecks. A bit of an excursion for them before they head to Norwich (though some of the Norwich ones did a spell when new on RR in Bath).

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