• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

A career as a signaller

phil1984

Member
Joined
15 Mar 2018
Messages
8
Hello all,

First time poster here so be gentle! Having just spent two days reading 69 pages of posts.... Massive thank you to all the contributors. There really is an incredible wealth of information available and it's hard to think of any questions that haven't already been answered!

I've recently been looking at changing career and the railways have always been somewhere I'd love to have worked. (Very aware I'm not alone in this).

Signalling seems very appealing, and it's been great to read the overwhelming positive feedback from those already doing it.

I live in the York area, and realise I've just missed the boat on some vacancies at the York ROC. There is however a Grade 2 role going at Barton Hill SB. I just wondered whether people thought it was worth going for? The description is fixed term/secondment until Apr 2019 so wondered if it is more aimed at experienced signal staff?

I can see that the application process is not quick, and then signalling school follows, so a fixed term of a year doesn't seem to fit with this? Though it does talk about an apprenticeship in the description so is the fixed term nature more based on the box being in line to close?

Sorry, aware that's a lot of questions! (Having said it was hard to think of any more questions)
 
Last edited:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

choochoobacca

Member
Joined
22 Nov 2017
Messages
122
Evening folks,

I’ve today received a pre-offer email and would just like to say thank you for the wealth of info in this thread; it’s absolutely helped me to prepare for the interview and recruitment process.

I won’t say where the offer is for or any other information just yet as I’ve not had the offer in writing, they’ve just asked for previous employment information and the like.

I have a few questions if somebody would be kind enough to answer them:

1) How long can I expect to wait for a start date? Reading back I understand that it’s dependant on spaces at signalling school etc, but do they normally allow you to come into the company a bit before you start at school and do some shadowing?

2) What sort of thing do they test for during the medical? A tad overweight from Christmas etc so don’t want to be failed because I’m a chunk! Haha.

3) Any advice for the time before I start? Reading materials or anything of the like? And any advice for signalling school?

Many thanks in advance.

Silver

Congratulations! Must be a good feeling!
I appreciate you don’t want to say where the job is but are you able to say what grade it is?
 

SmokeAndJoe

Member
Joined
25 Oct 2016
Messages
88
Hello all,

First time poster here so be gentle! Having just spent two days reading 69 pages of posts.... Massive thank you to all the contributors. There really is an incredible wealth of information available and it's hard to think of any questions that haven't already been answered!

I've recently been looking at changing career and the railways have always been somewhere I'd love to have worked. (Very aware I'm not alone in this).

Signalling seems very appealing, and it's been great to read the overwhelming positive feedback from those already doing it.

I live in the York area, and realise I've just missed the boat on some vacancies at the York ROC. There is however a Grade 2 role going at Barton Hill SB. I just wondered whether people thought it was worth going for? The description is fixed term/secondment until Apr 2019 so wondered if it is more aimed at experienced signal staff?

I can see that the application process is not quick, and then signalling school follows, so a fixed term of a year doesn't seem to fit with this? Though it does talk about an apprenticeship in the description so is the fixed term nature more based on the box being in line to close?

Sorry, aware that's a lot of questions! (Having said it was hard to think of any more questions)
FYI There are roles at York live that may go external yet.

Fixed term is probably due to box changing, but once you're in, apply for other jobs if you're on a fixed term role.
 

SmokeAndJoe

Member
Joined
25 Oct 2016
Messages
88
Congratulations!!

1) as with all applications depends on the Lom and how quickly you are needed. Hopefully the Lom will tell you so your not left hanging. Get onto Hr or the Lom if u dont get the answers you need.
I will be at my location 1 week before i go.

2) when i went for the medical there was a standard for eyesight and hearing that I had to pass but its not difficult to pass.
You would have to have very bad hearing and eyesight to fail to meet the standard. Ive seen some real real big chunks on the railway in signalling and they passed there medical so dont worry about that side of it.

3) Everyone always says to me just turn up at signalling school with a clear head. Listen and revise. Lots.
Ask questions too.

If you don't understand something, don't feel silly, say it, someone else is probably thinking it. About anything.
 

Dispatcher999

Member
Joined
6 Feb 2018
Messages
52
Is anyone able to give any information on the Crossing Keeper position at Cambridge? What’s the difference between them and a signaller? I applied for both but my scores didn’t meet the standard for the Siganller job which is so frustrating. It did though meet the benchmark for the Crossing Keeper position so I’ll have to wait and see what that brings.
Bump.. sorry if this has already been answered :)
 

JohnR

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
492
In terms of the Signalling School, I take it NR will pay for your travel and accommodation? Is it just Monday-Friday?
 

NROP

Member
Joined
8 Nov 2016
Messages
12
Travel up on the Sunday and a mid day finish on the Friday i'm led to believe.
 

Teddyward

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2017
Messages
473
Location
Thurrock
One of my apps (Wimbledon) got changed from test complete to under consideration yesterday. I guess that means it’s been forwarded to the hiring manager? Although I did have one before under consideration for about 3 months before it turned to unsuccessful.
 

Sabs5296

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2016
Messages
48
Is it the grade 9 Wimbledon? There’s also a grade 7 feltham advertised internally, I don’t know if it’s out on the external list yet, but just apply for as many as you can, you’ll definitely get in
 

Teddyward

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2017
Messages
473
Location
Thurrock
Is it the grade 9 Wimbledon? There’s also a grade 7 feltham advertised internally, I don’t know if it’s out on the external list yet, but just apply for as many as you can, you’ll definitely get in
Yes it’s the grade 9. I’ve applied for about 7 so far ranging from grades 6-9. Feltham is on the external.
 

Cal1986

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2018
Messages
5
Hi guys,

Been reading this post for a while but looking to clarify something.

I applied for a grade 2 signaller role at Gainsborough with NR (applications ended on Friday), after I finished the application was showing as completed on my account and now nothing, no history of the application at all.

So is this normal to have it disappear or have they just seen it and decided they aren’t interested?
 

Dave Tasty

Member
Joined
26 Oct 2017
Messages
80
Location
Lincolnshire
Hi guys,

Been reading this post for a while but looking to clarify something.

I applied for a grade 2 signaller role at Gainsborough with NR (applications ended on Friday), after I finished the application was showing as completed on my account and now nothing, no history of the application at all.

So is this normal to have it disappear or have they just seen it and decided they aren’t interested?

This seems strange. Did you get any correspondence from network rail after you applied? You usually get emails within a day or two inviting you to take a test/wait for test scores/yes you have met the benchmark etc. All my (so far failed) applications are on my account, as far as I am aware they don't remove them which doesn't make for a pretty sight. You might want to email HR to see if they have any record of it.
 

Cal1986

Member
Joined
17 Mar 2018
Messages
5
I’ve not had any emails yet,

I did the 69 questions, 100% submitted them and remember seeing under consideration when it was first finished.

I guess i’ll start with email HR and seeing what they say
 

Davey W

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2018
Messages
6
Hi,

I’m trying to understand the shift pattern of a relief worker and am struggling. I appreciate that every signal box has a completely different rota and whatnot, but I’m trying to piece together how their shifts can be put together.

So far, I understand the following:
1 - it really depends on the box/boxes/area that is being covered.
2 - they receive their rota and patterns a week in advance rather than knowing a month in advance.

What I’m trying to get my head round is can they go from covering nights one week to covering earlies the next week? And are they still bound by the average of 35 hours a week? If they are covering holidays and sickness, what happens when everyone is in?

Thanks
 

Highlandspring

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2017
Messages
2,778
A GP relief signaller’s base roster only shows what their rest days are so they can be utilised for any turn of duty on the days they’re working. The rules for this (the “National Rostering Principles”) are complex and are often supplemented by local agreements. For example your shifts are not supposed to be changed without your agreement within 48 hours of you working them and that’s usually pretty well observed. You’re not supposed to be rostered nightshift into a rest day or annual leave without your agreement and in my experience that’s usually rather less well observed. The very basic rules are no more than 12 hours to be worked in one turn, no less than 12 hours rest between turns (11 for non safety critical activites e.g. safety briefings), no more than 13 shifts to be worked consecutively and no more than 72 hours to be worked in a week. Relief staff work a 35 hour basic week the same as any other signaller and your annual leave allowance depends on whether or not you’re on a 12 hour or 8 hour base roster.

There’s nothing to stop you working an early, a nightshift and a backshift in the same week subject to minimum rest periods and the requirements of the NRP; it all depends on how good, or otherwise, your roster clerk is and how they manage to fill the gaps in the roster. Where there’s no work for you on a particular day you’ll be shown as ‘Spare’ and have to be able to work if someone calls in sick or needs a day off at short notice - some areas require you to actually turn up at the box but most allow you a degree of freedom and simply require that you book on by phone and remain contactable and not unreasonably far from the box in case you have to go in. You should be shown with a turn of duty (like 1400 to 2200) but a favourite ruse is for the roster clerk or LOM to tell you that you should be available to work any turn on that day, which isn’t the case. If someone goes sick at 2150 then you could be made to come in and cover them for 10 minutes but if the nightshift called in sick you couldn’t be compelled to come out for that shift instead although you’d probably be asked.

Once the final rosters are published, typically on a Thursday at 1200, they are binding and you are committed to work any overtime you’ve agreed to. Equally any turn you’re shown to work where you’re not actually needed you should be paid as if you had worked it. There is a minimum payment of 6 hours for any shift and any overtime worked over 15 minutes should be rounded up to an hour (for example if you stayed on duty an extra 20 minutes because your colleague was late for work). In 8 hour areas you can be rostered to come in an hour earlier or stay an hour later than usual for published engineering work or train service requirements. This is called the ‘extra hour’ and has caused a lot of arguments and resentment since it was brought in but it’s published in black and white so is binding. I think some areas work a system where you are assumed to be available to work overtime on your rest days unless you tell the roster clerk otherwise which doesn’t seem very sensible to me. Some areas work an ‘equalisation’ system for overtime and some work according to a ‘priority order’. Some areas have relief staff covering boxes that work a mix of 8 and 12 hour shifts and that gets pretty complicated too.

If it all sounds a bit of a mess, that’s because it is but you’ll soon get used to how it all works in your area. When I read this thread I often think people coming from outside the industy have a bit of a rose tinted view of life in a signalbox but it isn’t a particularly fun or alluring job when you’re trying to stay awake at 0400 on your 6th of 7 nightshifts (having had your annual leave declined because there’s no cover) and you’re booked to finish your week on Sunday morning then back out on Monday for two earlys, two backshifts and a nightshift finishing at 0600 on the first day of your long weekend. Rosters have a huge influence on your life and as a reliefman the roster clerk can make or break you...
 
Last edited:

nom de guerre

Member
Joined
24 Nov 2015
Messages
774
2 - they receive their rota and patterns a week in advance rather than knowing a month in advance.

Residents follow the same, repeating shift pattern, so can plan much further ahead. It's entirely feasible to know what you're doing a year or more in advance - you just need to check your diary app/update your spreadsheet etc.
 

Davey W

Member
Joined
5 Mar 2018
Messages
6
Wow! That is a hell of a lot of information to take in and I’ve read it several times already! Thank you very much for that and it has made things a good deal clearer, if that’s possible.

I think many people have the ‘grass is always greener’ attitude when investigating a new career, myself included. It is always worth remembering that no job is perfect and easy! The 4am comment says just that, so thank you again for your honesty.
 

Tom Quinne

On Moderation
Joined
8 Jul 2017
Messages
2,225
My relief roster will be a cycling 12 week one, it’ll consist of:
SD (Spare day turn)
SN (Spare night turn)
SR (Signaller Relief)
SP (Spare)

Spare day and night is what it says on the tin, I know I’m Nights or day turn and could be booked to work any desk i sign.

Signaller Relief is I’ll cover meal breaks for those working desks.

Spare, lucky dip I could be any of the above - I just know I’ll be working that day the hours we’ll it’s as required.

I know when my rest days will be etc, that was my main concern.
 

Sunset route

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
A GP relief signaller’s base roster only shows what their rest days are so they can be utilised for any turn of duty on the days they’re working. The rules for this (the “National Rostering Principles”) are complex and are often supplemented by local agreements. For example your shifts are not supposed to be changed without your agreement within 48 hours of you working them and that’s usually pretty well observed. You’re not supposed to be rostered nightshift into a rest day or annual leave without your agreement and in my experience that’s usually rather less well observed. The very basic rules are no more than 12 hours to be worked in one turn, no less than 12 hours rest between turns (11 for non safety critical activites e.g. safety briefings), no more than 13 shifts to be worked consecutively and no more than 72 hours to be worked in a week. Relief staff work a 35 hour basic week the same as any other signaller and your annual leave allowance depends on whether or not you’re on a 12 hour or 8 hour base roster.

There’s nothing to stop you working an early, a nightshift and a backshift in the same week subject to minimum rest periods and the requirements of the NRP; it all depends on how good, or otherwise, your roster clerk is and how they manage to fill the gaps in the roster. Where there’s no work for you on a particular day you’ll be shown as ‘Spare’ and have to be able to work if someone calls in sick or needs a day off at short notice - some areas require you to actually turn up at the box but most allow you a degree of freedom and simply require that you book on by phone and remain contactable and not unreasonably far from the box in case you have to go in. You should be shown with a turn of duty (like 1400 to 2200) but a favourite ruse is for the roster clerk or LOM to tell you that you should be available to work any turn on that day, which isn’t the case. If someone goes sick at 2150 then you could be made to come in and cover them for 10 minutes but if the nightshift called in sick you couldn’t be compelled to come out for that shift instead although you’d probably be asked.

Once the final rosters are published, typically on a Thursday at 1200, they are binding and you are committed to work any overtime you’ve agreed to. Equally any turn you’re shown to work where you’re not actually needed you should be paid as if you had worked it. There is a minimum payment of 6 hours for any shift and any overtime worked over 15 minutes should be rounded up to an hour (for example if you stayed on duty an extra 20 minutes because your colleague was late for work). In 8 hour areas you can be rostered to come in an hour earlier or stay an hour later than usual for published engineering work or train service requirements. This is called the ‘extra hour’ and has caused a lot of arguments and resentment since it was brought in but it’s published in black and white so is binding. I think some areas work a system where you are assumed to be available to work overtime on your rest days unless you tell the roster clerk otherwise which doesn’t seem very sensible to me. Some areas work an ‘equalisation’ system for overtime and some work according to a ‘priority order’. Some areas have relief staff covering boxes that work a mix of 8 and 12 hour shifts and that gets pretty complicated too.

If it all sounds a bit of a mess, that’s because it is but you’ll soon get used to how it all works in your area. When I read this thread I often think people coming from outside the industy have a bit of a rose tinted view of life in a signalbox but it isn’t a particularly fun or alluring job when you’re trying to stay awake at 0400 on your 6th of 7 nightshifts (having had your annual leave declined because there’s no cover) and you’re booked to finish your week on Sunday morning then back out on Monday for two earlys, two backshifts and a nightshift finishing at 0600 on the first day of your long weekend. Rosters have a huge influence on your life and as a reliefman the roster clerk can make or break you...

Oops quoted the wrong person.
 

Sunset route

Member
Joined
27 Oct 2015
Messages
1,176
Hi,

I’m trying to understand the shift pattern of a relief worker and am struggling. I appreciate that every signal box has a completely different rota and whatnot, but I’m trying to piece together how their shifts can be put together.

So far, I understand the following:
1 - it really depends on the box/boxes/area that is being covered.
2 - they receive their rota and patterns a week in advance rather than knowing a month in advance.

What I’m trying to get my head round is can they go from covering nights one week to covering earlies the next week? And are they still bound by the average of 35 hours a week? If they are covering holidays and sickness, what happens when everyone is in?

Thanks

Three Bridges ASC where i work, we used to have a 65 week 8hr shift rotating roster including all rostered Sunday’s. It had fixed inbuilt GPR (general purpose relief) turns ie early turn GPR did early turn only and the same for the other shifts, meal relief and safety breifiing relief turns all within the base roster. Sunday’s although outside the working week will have all rostered turns shown which must be worked if rostered.

The 35hr working week is averages out throughout the roster, so some weeks you are working more days than others.

If you were going nights to lates a minimum of 32hrs rest would be required and lates to earlies 24hrs rest would be required. (There are minimum turn around times of 8rs for shift changing purposes around at weekends, but unless your still working a roster with grandfather rights going back into Railtrack days, these rosters have virtually all gone and wouldn’t be accepted anymore).

But you could in theory work earlies on Monday, lates on Tuesday and nights on Wednesday 32hrs off and back to earlies on Friday as that’s all within the rules, but it would never happen on residents roster but could in theory happen on a fully flexible GPR turns.

There is a good chance that most rosters in the country will not fully comply with the “National Rostering Principles” NRP as local conditions would of crept in to suit local needs. But it is the bible for producing rosters of which I have both paper and electronic copies as well as the new draft version currently being negotiated.

As you’ve probably worked out, using an 24hr 8 hour shift single person location roster as an example, 8 doesn’t divide into 35hrs but it does with 36hrs so you make an 36hr roster. But after for weeks the company now owes each signaller 4hrs so you repeat rge cycle again to create an 8 week roster, so now the company owes each signaller 8hrs, so one working shift in this now I week cycle becomes an extra rest day, which will be covered by an extra GPR signaller taken on for this roll above the normal GPR compliment to cover for the 35hr working week. Note Sunday’s are not included in this and most multiple panel/workstations locations will have a more bespoke version of this for various reasons.
 
Last edited:

Sinistah

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2017
Messages
241
Anyone on here apply for dorking and just got the nod? Trying to find out whether it was open to signallers or just externals
 

Ross Shearing

Member
Joined
28 Jan 2018
Messages
35
Hey guys.

Any current NR Signallers on here that can tell us externallies what’s on the internal list at the moment?

Also do they always go external or is that only when they haven’t had enough internal interest?

Many thanks to everyone on here for keeping me sane!
 

Top