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Brand new Queensland trains don't meet legal standards

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staticsteve

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Queensland rail authorities have procured brand new trains that don't comply with disability access requirements.

http://www.news.com.au/technology/i...l/news-story/6a5bff8cf7706833b0eb41d6f81d06d2

A lot has gone wrong
Architect Wendy Lovelace told Fairfax Media she was looking for the Federal Court to slap an injunction on QR to prevent them from operating the train because they failed to meet legal regulations for disabled access.

Incredibly, these standards have been in place since 2002, more than a decade before the trains were even ordered.
 
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Shaw S Hunter

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Ooops!! How long are the journeys that these trains will operate? Would the locking out of use of the toilets provide a suitable fudge around the regulations until the trains have been suitably modified?
 

staticsteve

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I'm not sure how long the journeys are.

Yes, you're right, I thought the stock response from the operator would be lock out all access to the toilets, thus not descrimating against disabled users.

Perhaps the regulations actually positively require disabled toilet provision, rather than simply demanding equal treatment.
 

paddington

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The trains are for local journeys which could range from a few minutes up to 1.5 hours, though could be over 4 hours if you really wanted to do the equivalent of (in London) Amersham to Orpington.

I believe the current trains don't even have toilets.
 

LesS

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The construction contract was totally botched. When the Queensland government called tenders they intended the contract to go to a local (Queensland) manufacturer. The manufacturer did not lodge a tender. I have heard 2 conflicting reasons why. I suspect that there is truth in both. The trains were built by Bombardier in India.
The Guard's compartment is at the end of the carset. The access door for wheelchairs etc is in the middle of the train. Many stations are not manned. The onboard toilet is somewhere else in the carset.
There have been technical difficulties for some 18 months or more.
Presently it is intended to use them next month for augmented services to the Gold Coast for the Commonwealth Games. Running times in Brisbane on the longer routes is over an hour.
 

staticsteve

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The trains are for local journeys which could range from a few minutes up to 1.5 hours, though could be over 4 hours if you really wanted to do the equivalent of (in London) Amersham to Orpington.

I believe the current trains don't even have toilets.

Thanks for the info. It sounds as though toulets are needed for the longer journeys in that case..
 

Shaw S Hunter

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At least us Brits now know it's not just our government departments who are not very good at managing procurement processes. But the lack of enquiry smacks of either a poor political opposition or a process so convoluted that more than one government has been involved.
 

LesS

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Sorry Steve; non of the above.

Only one government is involved, Queensland. There is no corruption; if there was then that state's corruption commission would be involved. The situation comes largely from failures by several people at various stages of the procurement and construction processes.

The tender included provisions which can only be considered onerous. They were copied from a previous tender issued by New South Wales. It is the presence of these provisions which caused the intended supplier to not tender having been badly burned by the NSW experience. Interestingly they are involved in the process of fixing the problems.

A major issue in both cases is the absence of quality control at the place of manufacture; India in the present case and China in the previous case.

It would seem that some lessons are not easily learned. NSW has received first deliveries of driverless trains from India. Testing is underway but commencement in service could be 12 months away. First deliveries of new trains for intercity services is awaited from Korea. These are for services to Newcastle, Lithgow and Kiama. The approach to Lithgow is through 10 tunnels. It has been revealed that the cars ordered are too wide for the tunnels. The public requirement is for reversible seats. The order is for fixed direction seats. The political repercussions are well under way.

The whole matter in both states is what happens when economic theory and political ideology overrule all else.
 

staticsteve

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Sorry Steve; non of the above.

Only one government is involved, Queensland. There is no corruption; if there was then that state's corruption commission would be involved. The situation comes largely from failures by several people at various stages of the procurement and construction processes.

The tender included provisions which can only be considered onerous. They were copied from a previous tender issued by New South Wales. It is the presence of these provisions which caused the intended supplier to not tender having been badly burned by the NSW experience. Interestingly they are involved in the process of fixing the problems.

A major issue in both cases is the absence of quality control at the place of manufacture; India in the present case and China in the previous case.

It would seem that some lessons are not easily learned. NSW has received first deliveries of driverless trains from India. Testing is underway but commencement in service could be 12 months away. First deliveries of new trains for intercity services is awaited from Korea. These are for services to Newcastle, Lithgow and Kiama. The approach to Lithgow is through 10 tunnels. It has been revealed that the cars ordered are too wide for the tunnels. The public requirement is for reversible seats. The order is for fixed direction seats. The political repercussions are well under way.

The whole matter in both states is what happens when economic theory and political ideology overrule all else.

Although there's no corruption, it seems there has been a huge waste of taxpayer's money, as the cost of rectifying the problems is likely to be substantial (as far as I understand).

On the most basic level, it seems that the procurement process and contracts did not set the correct specifications. In that case surely quality control wouldn't solve this problem, as it would be far to late by that stage.

The manufacturer was not required to meet the disability regulations, so they would not be willing to change the design without significant extra payment.

It seems to me that if no investigation (internal rather than criminal) is carried out, then lessons are unlikely to be learnt.

A rather sad situation.
 
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