But why should there be any short-forming? Surely, a TOC sees to it that it has sufficient stock to cover the PVR, and a % extra for maintenance, no? The ex-FGW 150s should have created a stock surplus - so where are all the missing units?
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Northern Unit Refurbishments
- Thread starter darloscott
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But why should there be any short-forming? Surely, a TOC sees to it that it has sufficient stock to cover the PVR, and a % extra for maintenance, no? The ex-FGW 150s should have created a stock surplus - so where are all the missing units?
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jonesy3001
Established Member
That many threads about the FGW/GWR 150s transferring to northern i knew someone would answer in one of them, nice one.
Even presuming Northern start the day with the correct number of units in service disruption can leave units out-of-position and then they can resort to short forming, as they see two services running with fewer than usual carriages as preferable to a cancelled service.
Do you happen to know which Pacers are currently allocated to Heaton? By the TrainSpotter App they have 142 015, 016, 017, 018, 019, 020, 021, 022, 024, 025, 026, 034, 050, 065, 066, 070, 071, 078, 079, 084, 086, 087, 088, 089, 090, 091, 092, 093, 094, 095, 096 which is 31 units.
I have additionally seen 142 023, 063, 064 and 068 operating in the area which makes the 35, however I have never seen 142 034 in service.
Thanks
PHILIPE
Veteran Member
Better to be sure than sorry
northernchris
Established Member
- Joined
- 24 Jul 2011
- Messages
- 1,509
AFAIK 142034 used to be a Heaton unit for a brief time, but returned to Newton Heath a couple of years ago. 023, 027, 029, 064 and 068 are Heaton allocated but think 063 is Newton Heath
simon7929
Member
Units 027/9/34 all back at NH. Former NH sets at HT currently are, 142 023/63/4/7/8 and 70. Plus all the 29 former ATN units.
185143
Established Member
- Joined
- 3 Mar 2013
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- 4,506
I was about to post the same. Currently on the 12:32 Wigan-Liverpool if anyone's after it.
DJH1971
Established Member
I was on 319442 on the 16:16 LIV-MIA service just now.
I've never noticed this before, but it appears to be the odd one out on having a Stone Faiveley pantograph instead of the 'highspeed' pan.
I've never noticed this before, but it appears to be the odd one out on having a Stone Faiveley pantograph instead of the 'highspeed' pan.
431 has one as well. Now I asked whether they were compatible with the the new OLE in the NW after once reading that it wasn't ideal with SF pans. . Was told it was in a rather snotty attitude from a few posters, .....then it decided to have a BBQ. Coincidence or just unlucky??
palmersears
Established Member
- Joined
- 20 Sep 2011
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Have either of 150102 or 150127 entered service with Northern yet? I know the former was due back from its refurb recently, whilst the latter arrived a week ago 'fresh' from GWR, but wondered if either had been pressed into service yet.
127 is sat on the back roads at Newton Heath still with its GWR destination blind.
185143
Established Member
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- 3 Mar 2013
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Have the 319s got new announcements?
I'm on 319377 and it now says 'This train is for Liverpool Lime Street. The next stop is Liverpool Lime Street'
Rather than 'This train is the Northern service to Liverpool Lime Street. The next station stop is Liverpool Lime Street. If you have boarded this train at a station with ticket buying facilities..... ect ect....'
I'm on 319377 and it now says 'This train is for Liverpool Lime Street. The next stop is Liverpool Lime Street'
Rather than 'This train is the Northern service to Liverpool Lime Street. The next station stop is Liverpool Lime Street. If you have boarded this train at a station with ticket buying facilities..... ect ect....'
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Clear and concise. Excellent!
darylyates17
Member
Im glad they have changed it the old announcements were very annoying BTW what 319/4s are still in service apart 319450 as I am after them
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Yes they have.. just on the 319's for now but believe there is a very very big update coming for the diesel fleet also...
Does anyone have a photo of it?
djpontrack
Member
I had 319424 from Lime St to Garswood on Friday and also 319448 from Wigan NW to Preston on the same day. I don't remember if I saw any more 319/4s.
Not the best but here's one.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I really quite like that. Quite classy and modern.
Don't you think its a bit of a waste of money? It does not look really any better than the existing seat covers they had, which were new.
Northern have money to spend painting trains white, replacing already new seat covers so that they are the correct colour, and installing ticket machines at Denton. But they don't seem to have any to spend on actually improving the quality of their trains?
I agree it looks nice, but it's been out of service 3 times now for work in 3 years, and it is fundamentally unchanged.
Hooray! About time!
Bantamzen
Established Member
Well branding wise it could be argued that any repaint / re-viynl work is fundamentally a waste of money in the greater scheme of things, but that is the nature of privatisation. Companies want their brand stamped on their units even if it is only for a few years, if the railways were one entity with one identity then there would be no need. As for quality, well new seat covers, repainting, re-flooring & adding things like USB, WiFi etc for most customers are improvements even if purely cosmetic. But in the long run losing the Pacers and brining in the 195/331s & with the rest of the fleet internally refreshed that will be seen as at least some improvements.
Clearly there have been issues with the first batch of refurbishments which to be fair to Northern they seem to be trying to rectify. But juggling a pretty large, ageing fleet between time needed for refurbs and trying to operate something close to a planned service isn't going to be easy, although the trickle of cascades will be starting to make things at least a bit easier. Perhaps a better time to judge will be in a couple of years when the fleet is completed?
I think there are now just enough units if everything runs smoothly. Fleet levels during the refurbishment program were dependant on Manchester to Preston electrification finishing and cascaded units arriving on time. The two delays combined mean they have less units than they should even prior to the May timetable change, there is no room for any problems. The number of passengers and the number of services provides have grown since April 2016 but the number of units has only grown by about 15 x 2 coach units. If a unit break down then the outcome will ussually be short forming until its back in service. Around Manchester I have noticed much less short forming since the cascades started in January.
adrock1976
Established Member
Have Northern seriously done this, bearing in mind Denton has a frequency of one train every seven (yes, seven) days in one direction only?
No wonder the country has ended up in the terrible state it's in nowadays.
Just had a trip on 156420 on 12:29 Manchester airport to Preston service and first impressions were good. I do like the moquette and the lino hopefully will be easier to keep clean even if it doesn't feel as cosy. The grab handles on the seats tho are mostly dark blue with a few filthy white ones as well.
As an aside refurbed 319366 was on the 11:40 airport to Liverpool and 150124 is paired with 275 on 12:52 man pic to Buxton if people want them
As an aside refurbed 319366 was on the 11:40 airport to Liverpool and 150124 is paired with 275 on 12:52 man pic to Buxton if people want them
darylyates17
Member
Just had 319458 on an Manchester Airport-Liverpool Lime Street from St Helens Junction it ended up being 3E at Wavertree Technology Park, its one of the loudest 319s in the fleet and it seemed to be quite bouncy as well