Newton extensions to Larkhall and Motherwell in March/April

prod_pep · 8 Feb 2018

According to RTT, the Glasgow Central HL - Newton services (via the Cathcart Circle) are extended to Larkhall and Motherwell for four weekends in late March and early April. Does anyone know if any 314s are booked to be used on these workings, please?

These extensions took place back in 2015 and 314s were used throughout, but since the December 2016 timetable change, many of the Newton workings have passed to 318s and 320s. Having missed out on the chance to ride a 314 to Larkhall back then, I'm hoping some 314s will be used on these. Any help much appreciated as always.

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route101 · 8 Feb 2018

prod_pep said:
According to RTT, the Glasgow Central HL - Newton services (via the Cathcart Circle) are extended to Larkhall and Motherwell for four weekends in late March and early April. Does anyone know if any 314s are booked to be used on these workings, please?

These extensions took place back in 2015 and 314s were used throughout, but since the December 2016 timetable change, many of the Newton workings have passed to 318s and 320s. Having missed out on the chance to ride a 314 to Larkhall back then, I'm hoping some 314s will be used on these. Any help much appreciated as always.

Should be , they were the last time , though last time it was a 320 i got from Motherwell to Glasgow High Level via maxwell park . Some 318s are indeed on Newtons , never used to be until last few months . Im sure a 314 stables at motherwell.

Kite159 · 8 Feb 2018

Interesting, I gather not all the services have been inputted into the system for the 2nd April yet?

prod_pep · 9 Feb 2018

route101 said:
Should be , they were the last time , though last time it was a 320 i got from Motherwell to Glasgow High Level via maxwell park . Some 318s are indeed on Newtons , never used to be until last few months . Im sure a 314 stables at motherwell.

That's right. I think they had a fast Motherwell running back in 2015 which was 318/320 operated and an all stations service which was 314s.

Since December 2016, on Saturday daytimes the Glasgow - Newton via Maxwell Park trains and the Cathcart circulars are 318/320 operated while the Newton via Queens Park and Neilston workings are still 314s.

Looking at RTT, quite a few of the Newton extensions to Larkhall come from Motherwell TMD in the morning while the extensions to Motherwell on the Saturdays seem to be interworked with the Cumbernauld service, so I'm thinking they will all be 318/320 operated, unfortunately. Maybe the Sunday will bring better luck, as I've found all Neilston and Newton workings are usually 314s then.

I'd be really grateful for confirmation either way as I'm not going to bother if they're all 318s/320s.

route101 · 9 Feb 2018

prod_pep said:
That's right. I think they had a fast Motherwell running back in 2015 which was 318/320 operated and an all stations service which was 314s.

Since December 2016, on Saturday daytimes the Glasgow - Newton via Maxwell Park trains and the Cathcart circulars are 318/320 operated while the Newton via Queens Park and Neilston workings are still 314s.

Looking at RTT, quite a few of the Newton extensions to Larkhall come from Motherwell TMD in the morning while the extensions to Motherwell on the Saturdays seem to be interworked with the Cumbernauld service, so I'm thinking they will all be 318/320 operated, unfortunately. Maybe the Sunday will bring better luck, as I've found all Neilston and Newton workings are usually 314s then.

I'd be really grateful for confirmation either way as I'm not going to bother if they're all 318s/320s.

I know Neilstons are pretty much guaranteed a 314 but didnt know that Queens Park side was 314 . Ive caught a few 320s from Mt Florida recently . I think a few years a 314 ran out to Lanark , could be imagining that

Scotrail88 · 10 Feb 2018

Is this for the signaling switch over between Motherwell And Rutherglen??
Hopefully improve the whifflet line reliability

Carntyne · 10 Feb 2018

I think it's the Whifflet workstation being switched on at the West of Scotland ROC. There are a fair bit of renewals works going on at Mossend too.

Scotrail88 · 10 Feb 2018

Thanks - does anyone know why when leaving the whifflet branch at Rutherglen east junction, you approach a caution signal only to be given a green proceed when the Rutherglen station signal clears.
Usually there is not congestion issue and slows the exit from the branch and compounds delays. Surely continuing at standard speed until reducing on approach to Rutherglen would save some time (albeit on 30secnds) but can make the difference as seems tightly timed.

route101 · 11 Feb 2018

Scotrail88 said:
Thanks - does anyone know why when leaving the whifflet branch at Rutherglen east junction, you approach a caution signal only to be given a green proceed when the Rutherglen station signal clears.
Usually there is not congestion issue and slows the exit from the branch and compounds delays. Surely continuing at standard speed until reducing on approach to Rutherglen would save some time (albeit on 30secnds) but can make the difference as seems tightly timed.

Cant answer your question but often on a VT or TPE service its slow going from Newton up to Glasgow Central

louis97 · 11 Feb 2018

Scotrail88 said:
Thanks - does anyone know why when leaving the whifflet branch at Rutherglen east junction, you approach a caution signal only to be given a green proceed when the Rutherglen station signal clears.
Usually there is not congestion issue and slows the exit from the branch and compounds delays. Surely continuing at standard speed until reducing on approach to Rutherglen would save some time (albeit on 30secnds) but can make the difference as seems tightly timed.

G853, the signal protecting Rutherglen Central Junction on the Down Slow is approach controlled. The line speed from Rutherglen East on the Down Slow is 75mph, this means in order to have flashing aspects the turnout to the station needs to be 25mph or more. The turnout is currently 20mph.

However when the layout at Rutherglen is remodelled and resignalled, the turnout goes up to 35mph, and there will be flashing yellow aspects for this route when approaching from the Whifflet line. Trains approaching from the Newton direction will also receive a benefit as the turnout will have less severe approach control.

Scotrail88 · 12 Feb 2018

Thanks Louis - should help improve as always didn’t understand why slow down leaving the Whifflet line to speed up and then slow again on approach to Rutherglen.
How are they going to increase this to 35mph as is a tight turn when entering Rutherglen station.

louis97 · 12 Feb 2018

Scotrail88 said:
Thanks Louis - should help improve as always didn’t understand why slow down leaving the Whifflet line to speed up and then slow again on approach to Rutherglen.
How are they going to increase this to 35mph as is a tight turn when entering Rutherglen station.

My mistake it actually goes up to 30mph, from what I can see the turnout is to be renewed to allow the higher speed.

Scotrail88 · 12 Feb 2018

Many thanks for your info - are you able to share your source of info?
Would be interested to see the revised layouts and speeds.
(I know this isn’t the exact correct thread for this. Sorry)

louis97 · 12 Feb 2018

Scotrail88 said:
Many thanks for your info - are you able to share your source of info?
Would be interested to see the revised layouts and speeds.
(I know this isn’t the exact correct thread for this. Sorry)

I'm afraid not, its all internal.

Scotrail88 · 12 Feb 2018

No problem.
Hopefully the increased speed and removal of the slow down leaving the whifflet and on approach will help reliability.
Will this all take place during the April works?

louis97 · 12 Feb 2018

Scotrail88 said:
No problem.
Hopefully the increased speed and removal of the slow down leaving the whifflet and on approach will help reliability.
Will this all take place during the April works?

I don't think so, I think the commissioning is in a weekend closure in July.

prod_pep · 22 Mar 2018

Sorry for bumping this thread but I just wondered if anyone can confirm whether any 314s are booked to reach Larkhall or Motherwell this coming weekend, please?

Highlandspring · 22 Mar 2018

Just spent a while going through the altered EMU diagrams for the next two weekends. The only 314 working of interest to you that I can find is GW112 diagram on Sun 25th only, which works 2B90 0950 Glasgow Central - Motherwell via Bellshill before returning empty to Glasgow Central (via the main line to Newton then via Kings Park) as 5Z90. Later on that night it works 2Z21 2253 Motherwell to Glasgow Central via the Hamilton Circle after coming in empty from Newton as 5Z21.

prod_pep · 22 Mar 2018

Highlandspring said:
Just spent a while going through the altered EMU diagrams for the next two weekends. The only 314 working of interest to you that I can find is GW112 diagram on Sun 25th only, which works 2B90 0950 Glasgow Central - Motherwell via Bellshill before returning empty to Glasgow Central (via the main line to Newton then via Kings Park) as 5Z90. Later on that night it works 2Z21 2253 Motherwell to Glasgow Central via the Hamilton Circle after coming in empty from Newton as 5Z21.

Many thanks for having a look - appreciate it. Unfortunately I won't be able to make either of those services on the 25th. Both 2B90 and 2Z21 show as operating on the third and fourth Sundays (8th and 15th April), so I wonder if they will again be 314s then?

So, it appears 318s and 320s will be going to Neilston on the Sundays, which is surely a rarity in itself?

hexagon789 · 22 Mar 2018

prod_pep said:
Many thanks for having a look - appreciate it. Unfortunately I won't be able to make either of those services on the 25th. Both 2B90 and 2Z21 show as operating on the third and fourth Sundays (8th and 15th April), so I wonder if they will again be 314s then?

So, it appears 318s and 320s will be going to Neilston on the Sundays, which is surely a rarity in itself?

I think so, I think the 320s are only on the Circle at the moment.

prod_pep · 22 Mar 2018

hexagon789 said:
I think so, I think the 320s are only on the Circle at the moment.

Well, I know they do reach Newton as well but usually via Maxwell Park I think (at least on Saturdays). I've never personally seen anything other than a 314 on the Neilston line.

hexagon789 · 22 Mar 2018

prod_pep said:
Well, I know they do reach Newton as well but usually via Maxwell Park I think (at least on Saturdays). I've never personally seen anything other than a 314 on the Neilston line.

Didn't realise they reached Newton. Never seen anything but 314s to Neilston either.

route101 · 22 Mar 2018

prod_pep said:
Many thanks for having a look - appreciate it. Unfortunately I won't be able to make either of those services on the 25th. Both 2B90 and 2Z21 show as operating on the third and fourth Sundays (8th and 15th April), so I wonder if they will again be 314s then?

So, it appears 318s and 320s will be going to Neilston on the Sundays, which is surely a rarity in itself?

Yes mostly 314s to Neilston . Never seen a 320 to Neilston . Ive heard of 380s going to Neilston . With regards to 318s they used to be regulars on the Neilstons in peaks i think along with 334s . Not sure if 334s are still cleared on Circle . Newton and Neilston services .

hexagon789 · 22 Mar 2018

route101 said:
Yes mostly 314s to Neilston . Never seen a 320 to Neilston . Ive heard of 380s going to Neilston . With regards to 318s they used to be regulars on the Neilstons in peaks i think along with 334s . Not sure if 334s are still cleared on Circle . Newton and Neilston services .

Didn't 334s ever go to Newton or Neilston, I can only remember them on the Circle?

route101 · 22 Mar 2018

hexagon789 said:
Didn't 334s ever go to Newton or Neilston, I can only remember them on the Circle?

Not hundred percent sure , but recall getting one from Whitecraigs in 2004 . 318s for sure used to get it around 430

hexagon789 · 22 Mar 2018

route101 said:
Not hundred percent sure , but recall getting one from Whitecraigs in 2004 . 318s for sure used to get it around 430

Thanks, it's been that many years since the 380s came in I can't remember!

route101 · 22 Mar 2018

hexagon789 said:
Thanks, it's been that many years since the 380s came in I can't remember!

I think theres a 380 on a circle diagram in the morning , seen it at Crosshill a few times.

hexagon789 · 22 Mar 2018

route101 said:
I think theres a 380 on a circle diagram in the morning , seen it at Crosshill a few times.

I've travelled on that service a few times, always seems to run late.

Highlandspring · 22 Mar 2018

route101 said:
Yes mostly 314s to Neilston . Never seen a 320 to Neilston . Ive heard of 380s going to Neilston . With regards to 318s they used to be regulars on the Neilstons in peaks i think along with 334s . Not sure if 334s are still cleared on Circle . Newton and Neilston services .

There have certainly been a couple of 318s and at least one 320 to Neilston in the last three weeks. Class 334s are currently cleared for all the routes you mention.

hexagon789 · 22 Mar 2018

Highlandspring said:
There have certainly been a couple of 318s and at least one 320 to Neilston in the last three weeks. Class 334s are currently cleared for all the routes you mention.

Wasn't sure if the 334s were still cleared, it being that long since they last ran the Cathcart Circle routes. Wonder if we'll ever have 334s on the circle again.

Newton extensions to Larkhall and Motherwell in March/April

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