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Trespassers mindset and ways to change that.
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321446
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Jopsuk sums it up nicely.
Maybe what is needed is any cases bought to Court by ambulance chasing lawyers should be empowered to be thrown out. Once people realise that there is no gain to be got for suing over breaking a fingernail because they trespassed or worse that little Johnny getting clattered by the 20:00 Liverpool St - Norwich was his own fault, please go away oh and here’s a bill for sweeping him up then maybe a message may start to get through. Maybe.
Maybe what is needed is any cases bought to Court by ambulance chasing lawyers should be empowered to be thrown out. Once people realise that there is no gain to be got for suing over breaking a fingernail because they trespassed or worse that little Johnny getting clattered by the 20:00 Liverpool St - Norwich was his own fault, please go away oh and here’s a bill for sweeping him up then maybe a message may start to get through. Maybe.
hexagon789
Veteran Member
Very well put.
AlterEgo
Veteran Member
I’m not sure driving a vehicle onto the railway on purpose would count just as trespass - surely the police would charge you with something a lot more serious?
When a fatality occurs on the railway due to trespass, how often is it reported on the news? I wonder if part of the problem is that the consequences are outside the field of vision of the perpetrators, so they don't exist. It is similar to people driving carelessly, they think they can pull off the dangerous manoevure without incident because they have managed it before, it is the other fools that have accidents, not them, and have no concept of risk and probability, combined with a Dunning-Kruger issue. Perhaps broadcasting tresspass related deaths far more frequently would eventually get the consequences ingrained into people's subconscious. We should do the same for careless/reckless driving as well, where the death and injury toll dwarfs that on the railway but as a society we just accept this, or worse, whinge about any safety related clampdown on the "innocent motorist". Life is cheap, freedom of the individual takes priority, externalised costs don't exist 
.
.When a fatality occurs on the railway due to trespass, how often is it reported on the news? I wonder if part of the problem is that the consequences are outside the field of vision of the perpetrators, so they don't exist. It is similar to people driving carelessly, they think they can pull off the dangerous manoevure without incident because they have managed it before, it is the other fools that have accidents, not them, and have no concept of risk and probability, combined with a Dunning-Kruger issue. Perhaps broadcasting tresspass related deaths far more frequently would eventually get the consequences ingrained into people's subconscious. We should do the same for careless/reckless driving as well, where the death and injury toll dwarfs that on the railway but as a society we just accept this, or worse, whinge about any safety related clampdown on the "innocent motorist". Life is cheap, freedom of the individual takes priority, externalised costs don't exist
Extremely well put, along with Jopsuk`s suggestion. There is probably a peer pressure thing too. " Go on, dare you". sort of thing. The individual may be fully aware of the dangers but doesn`t want to loose face in front of buddies and hence would risk their lives on that basis. Drug taking is similar in a way.
cl90001
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Hi all, hope this is ok to post on this thread? in some cases it may be slightly of topic?.
I’m a rail enthusiast from East Anglia and know 4 people who are constantly messing about or trespassing on the railways round here, 1 person in particular has already had the BTP round and been given a warning but continues to dangerous things on the railway despite this.
These 4 people in particular do a lot of filming and photos, however they don’t do it in a safe way, on Monday (28th May) they were filming a stock movement at a foot crossing in Norfolk however they were standing on the track side of the gates (with tripods) on route to this crossing then on Saturday (26th May) they were at a foot crossing on the Great Eastern Main Line and once again standing to close to the tracks with trains passing at speed as well as messing about on the line between trains, should also point out that between trains they keep walking on and off the tracks to see if any trains were coming.
On previous occasions these people have also messed about with level crossing gates (one of which was on the ECML) as well as climbing on signals, they have also been messing around in station waiting rooms as well as giving staff abuse while they were on duty. what shocks me about this is that 2 of these people are old enough to know better and you would think they would set a example but sadly that is not the case.
I would also just like to point out that I have now been with them or involved in any of the stuff mentioned above, I only know what they have been up to as not only have they been dumb enough to post it on social media but some other people I know have who are sensible have been able to get pictures of them in the act.
Would love to know peoples thoughts and suggestions on this?.
I’m a rail enthusiast from East Anglia and know 4 people who are constantly messing about or trespassing on the railways round here, 1 person in particular has already had the BTP round and been given a warning but continues to dangerous things on the railway despite this.
These 4 people in particular do a lot of filming and photos, however they don’t do it in a safe way, on Monday (28th May) they were filming a stock movement at a foot crossing in Norfolk however they were standing on the track side of the gates (with tripods) on route to this crossing then on Saturday (26th May) they were at a foot crossing on the Great Eastern Main Line and once again standing to close to the tracks with trains passing at speed as well as messing about on the line between trains, should also point out that between trains they keep walking on and off the tracks to see if any trains were coming.
On previous occasions these people have also messed about with level crossing gates (one of which was on the ECML) as well as climbing on signals, they have also been messing around in station waiting rooms as well as giving staff abuse while they were on duty. what shocks me about this is that 2 of these people are old enough to know better and you would think they would set a example but sadly that is not the case.
I would also just like to point out that I have now been with them or involved in any of the stuff mentioned above, I only know what they have been up to as not only have they been dumb enough to post it on social media but some other people I know have who are sensible have been able to get pictures of them in the act.
Would love to know peoples thoughts and suggestions on this?.
Warwick
Member
You've just spent several thousand pounds of someone else's money for nothing. The type of person who trespasses is not interested in the least.
I feel that we need to keep a sense of proportion here.
Not all trespass is dangerous.
When I lived in London near a busy railway line I thought nothing of climbing over the boundary fence to retrieve my washing that had blown over the fence. My closest approach to the nearest rail was about 5 meters. Whilst I know that I should not really have done this, I fail to see any actual danger.
I will also admit to illegally crossing the line at Gillingham, Dorset station by means of the barrow crossing at the country end of the platforms. This USED to be allowed, and I am not convinced that it suddenly became dangerous on the day the notice prohibiting use of the crossing was put up.
Not all trespass is dangerous.
When I lived in London near a busy railway line I thought nothing of climbing over the boundary fence to retrieve my washing that had blown over the fence. My closest approach to the nearest rail was about 5 meters. Whilst I know that I should not really have done this, I fail to see any actual danger.
I will also admit to illegally crossing the line at Gillingham, Dorset station by means of the barrow crossing at the country end of the platforms. This USED to be allowed, and I am not convinced that it suddenly became dangerous on the day the notice prohibiting use of the crossing was put up.
Islineclear3_1
Established Member
Are there any stats as to who, or what "type" of people trespass (i.e. young/old/background/ethnicity etc) or is there a fairly even distribution
And I'm not including foolhardy trainspotters out to photograph main-line steam like Tornado or Flying Scotsman
I understand that putting up fences might give someone second thoughts but for anyone with deep intent to trespass, nothing will get in their way.
Sadly, many members of today's society don't want to take responsibility for themselves or their actions. It's always someone else's fault/problem
And I'm not including foolhardy trainspotters out to photograph main-line steam like Tornado or Flying Scotsman
I understand that putting up fences might give someone second thoughts but for anyone with deep intent to trespass, nothing will get in their way.
Sadly, many members of today's society don't want to take responsibility for themselves or their actions. It's always someone else's fault/problem
I don't want to pay for someone to be in prison for a few months for retrieving a football from just over arms length inside a fenceline that's five metres from the nearest rail of the Far North line in the middle of the night. I have absolutely no interest in a punishment being doled out for doing something which is clearly not in the least bit dangerous.
Is it? Or is it more that fora such as this allow incidents to become better known about?
ShwervinMervin
Member
But at the same time, it costs the operators, police, and any other resources lots of money, and time that could be used in better ways.
ShwervinMervin
Member
Unfortunately most railway fatalities are suicides . There is a deliberate news policy not to report these - either at all or in any great detail as not to encourage others to attempt it . This approach is supported by the Samaritans .
twpsaesneg
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Tell BTP via their non-emergency number?
If you know times and locations you may be able to match up a name with a face on a previously reported incident.
This is a general policy. If you follow the Met Police Marine Support Unit and/or Tower Lifeboat on Twitter you will note that very little detail is given, even down to not noting whether he victim survived or not ('Recovered' applies to both living people and bodies) despite Tower Lifeboat averaging well over 1 launch per day. Similarly the good work that the Beachy Head Chaplaincy Team do in patrolling and carrying out targeted searches at that notable suicide spot is deliberately kept low key.
Whenever I have to catch a train from Silverdale to Lancaster I have to cross the tracks on the foot crossing at Silverdale station. There is a reasonable line of sight here, but not all trains stop and you have the express traffic, including nuclear, going through reasonably frequently. Now is this a safe practice, or not? I don't know, but every time I do this I think of the hypocrisy of the rail industry and its employees who consider it safe when they can't be bothered to provide an alternative but utter dire warnings of the consequences elsewhere.
If it is safe enough, then most of the commentators here are overreacting because in cases like this the railway authorities FORCE passengers to walk across the tracks and the dangers are clearly being exaggerated. In steam and early diesel days, there was far more general occupancy of tracks and most trespass was tolerated unless it was blatantly dangerous. I never saw parts of dead trainspotters strewn across the network. We sometimes had organised shed visits on the Southern and had to step carefully across live third rails!
If it's NOT safe then there should be a blanket ban on barrow crossings and footpaths crossing rail lines, maybe even level crossings, and the rail industry should have to pay to install footbridges and road bridges very quickly so that no person should have to ever set foot on a railway track ever again.
If it is safe enough, then most of the commentators here are overreacting because in cases like this the railway authorities FORCE passengers to walk across the tracks and the dangers are clearly being exaggerated. In steam and early diesel days, there was far more general occupancy of tracks and most trespass was tolerated unless it was blatantly dangerous. I never saw parts of dead trainspotters strewn across the network. We sometimes had organised shed visits on the Southern and had to step carefully across live third rails!
If it's NOT safe then there should be a blanket ban on barrow crossings and footpaths crossing rail lines, maybe even level crossings, and the rail industry should have to pay to install footbridges and road bridges very quickly so that no person should have to ever set foot on a railway track ever again.
The most bizarre trespass incident I've ever seen was at Hitchin a few years ago when two men casually strolled across four tracks from the up to the down platform. A staff member asked what the hell they were doing and told them that if the police had been there they would be arrested. The two didn't speak much English and seemed genuinely baffled as to what they had done wrong. They wanted to get to Cambridge but had got on a Peterborough train by mistake and had been told to go back to Hitchin and cross to the opposite platform (they obviously weren't told to use the subway!) for the Cambridge train. Anyway they apologised for breaking the rules and continued their journey.
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That wouldn't be bizarre if you'd travelled in Eastern Europe. Outside of major city termini, walking across the tracks to the designated platform (remember continental platforms aren't raised) is the norm. In the rural areas there are no fences anyway.
cl90001
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I know 2 of the locations (and the time for 1 of the locations), I also know who they are and can easily pass names over to the BTP, I also have evidence (photos) which I can show to the BTP as well, did have a look on Network Rails and BTPs websites a couple of days ago but couldn’t find a suitable email or contact to report this with the photos?.
like I say, I only have these photos as the people responsible have been stupid enough to post them on social media, I haven’t been with them at any of incidents mentioned.
cl90001
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not related to the same tresspass as my first post... but another incident that I witnessed was at Stowmarket in October 2016, 2 people decided to cross the tracks by jumping on/off the platforms rather than using the stations footbridge or going around via the level crossing, luckily there wasn’t many trains about even though it was during the early hours of the morning just before the first trains of the day.
Eventually the police/BTP showed up and they were both arrested.
twpsaesneg
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cl90001
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Level crossings are signal controlled and many have barriers, so are nowhere near the equivalent of trespassing. It would be like claiming that if jumping red traffic lights is so dangerous, then the highways authority should install traffic lights at every single road junction in the country, or make junctions grade separated, so than no-one should ever have to negotiate a junction without being told when it is safe.
Indeed and I think these two were Eastern European and obviously this is par for the course in their country.
Joseph_Locke
Established Member
From here (one simple Google search:thank you for that, will drop them a email tonight when I get home from work
Rail Blues
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And the trauma suffered by a driver who hits them, some of whom never drive again and suffer long term psychological trauma.
Also what about people with mental disabilities and young children who find themselves on the tacks without fully understanding the risk they're exposing themselves to?
A Network Rail emergency number isn't really of any use to report historic trespassing though - the BTP email as above is perfectly fine.
It's obviously different if someone's on the line right now.
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