LUL lines and national rail access

Hi folks,

I have only really looked at Wikipedia but still no definitive answer. I seem to remember this being discussed previously but can’t find it.

How many London Underground lines have direct access to National rail? I know that the recent S Stock came via Aylesbury and Amersham onto the Metropolitain line and therefore onto the District and Circle lines (similar for Jubilee stock) and I assume Bakerloo stock gets there via the bottom end of the West coast main line.

I also know that the Waterloo & City line stock is lowered in by crane, but I can’t find how the Northern, Victoria and Piccadilly line stock (unless it’s the western end of the Uxbridge Met line?) gets there

Is there a list of locations where each line accessed the mainline for stock movement?

Mant thanks,

Adam

adamskiodp said:

Hi folks,

I have only really looked at Wikipedia but still no definitive answer. I seem to remember this being discussed previously but can’t find it.

How many London Underground lines have direct access to National rail? I know that the recent S Stock came via Aylesbury and Amersham onto the Metropolitain line and therefore onto the District and Circle lines (similar for Jubilee stock) and I assume Bakerloo stock gets there via the bottom end of the West coast main line.

I also know that the Waterloo & City line stock is lowered in by crane, but I can’t find how the Northern, Victoria and Piccadilly line stock (unless it’s the western end of the Uxbridge Met line?) gets there

Is there a list of locations where each line accessed the mainline for stock movement?

Mant thanks,

Adam

Click to expand...

The 2009 stock for the Victoria line was delivered by road, although all the lines are track connected (apart from the Waterloo & City).

The Central line is connected to the Metropolitan line through Ruislip depot.

The Bakerloo line is connected to the Jubilee line at Baker Street.

iirc both the Northern and Victoria lines are connected to the Piccadilly line as well, not 100% certain on that one though.

DanNCL said:

iirc both the Northern and Victoria lines are connected to the Piccadilly line as well, not 100% certain on that one though.

Click to expand...

Correct. The Victoria and Piccadilly lines connect at Finsbury Park. There are connections just south of the station, northbound Piccadilly to northbound Victoria and southbound Victoria to southbound Piccadilly.

There's also a single connection by reversing from the northbound Northern line City branch to the northbound Piccadilly line at King's Cross St Pancras.

http://carto.metro.free.fr/metro-tram-london/ is an excellent resource which shows connections.

transmanche said:

Correct. The Victoria and Piccadilly lines connect at Finsbury Park. There are connections just south of the station, northbound Piccadilly to northbound Victoria and southbound Victoria to southbound Piccadilly.

There's also a single connection by reversing from the northbound Northern line City branch to the northbound Piccadilly line at King's Cross St Pancras.

http://carto.metro.free.fr/metro-tram-london/ is an excellent resource which shows connections.

Click to expand...

That's a brilliant resource, thanks!

National Rail connections to the Underground are at:
- West Ruislip (later S Stock deliveries and current returns)
- Harrow & Wealdstone
- Kilburn High Road
- Amersham
- Harrow-on-the-Hill
- Gunnersbury
- East Putney
- Wimbledon
- Barking

Gunnersbury for the District too, as Overground trains come in off the West London Line and share track to Richmond.
Bakerloo is a complex issue, in theory a train not needing the 4th rail system to run, could cross-over from West Coast Main Line onto the DC line at Watford Junction and thus run into the Bakerloo tracks at Queen's Park and the depot at Stonebridge Park. Equally a train could leave Euston on the DC lines and join the Bakerloo just north of Queen's Park, but it would have to reverse at Willesden Junction to get onto Bakerloo tracks proper.
What's far more fun is pathing the Bakerloo trains to Acton Works for the on-going refurb programme - that's overnight moves on the Jub to reach Neasden and then an early move from Neasden down to Rayners Lane and back up the Picc to Acton. And then reversed to return the stock.
Northern to outside world is via the Kings Cross and Euston loops onto the Picc and then to Ruislip. Victoria to outside world is via the Picc connection at Finsbury Park. Jubilee simply uses the Met to get to Ruislip. Central has direct access to Ruislip, as does the Met.
Engineering works that need trains to bring materials in start from Ruislip depot and the majority of these routes are via Met and Picc before reaching their respective lines for the works, the only exception is the Central and W&C.

Thanks guys for the very informative replies

The Carto metro map is great - I found them all!

Thanks again,

Adam

The Carto metro map seems to show an old double link from the GWR direct onto the District Line tracks at Ealing Broadway. Yet I can distinctly remember a single line link from the GWR slow lines to the Central tracks back in the early 1970's.

Originally there was a double track connection in 1893 between the District Line (as it's now called) and the main line:

By the time of the next map in 1955, and the arrival of the Central line, a lot of remodelling had been done to the station / platform / track layout and the direct link to the main line had gone as the east end of the platforms were mostly in its place. The only direct link between the underground and main line is a single track between the Central (bottom track) and adjacent main line (top track), just east of where the crossover is from the District to Central. The move would be from the Central platforms to the main line or vice versa. Should a train need to go between the main line and District, this would mean a double shunt via the Central line platforms.

The CartoMetro map accurately shows the track layout, generally to scale. However, for clarity, Franklin has sometimes had to use a little artistic license, especially when showing the position of some disused track where there is already (current) track in the place. Also, for clarity, not all disused tracks are always shown in an area. Ealing Broadway is an example of that and the disused link between the District and main is shown more to the right than it actually was.

The disused single line link between the main line and Central line was missed and I’ll pass that on to Franklin to add.

1893 map:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/index.cfm#zoom=18&lat=51.5154&lon=-0.2973&layers=163&b=4

1955 map:
http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/index.cfm#zoom=18&lat=51.5154&lon=-0.2973&layers=173&b=4

scroll around the maps

Thanks Rogmi for the reply. It's good to know that my memory was not playing tricks on me. Can you also pass on to Franklin, my eternal thanks for this monumental piece of work. It's a thoroughly entertaining and fascinating thing!

Will do. I'm sure he will appreciate it