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RAC says new headlights 'blinding drivers'

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centraltrains

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525

Drivers are being temporarily blinded by modern vehicle headlights, according to an RAC survey.

Two-thirds of drivers say they are "regularly dazzled" by oncoming headlights even though they are dipped...

The RAC said advances in headlight technology were causing the problem.

RAC road safety spokesman Pete Williams said: "The intensity and brightness of some new car headlights is clearly causing difficulty for other road users.

"Headlight technology has advanced considerably in recent years, but while that may be better for the drivers of those particular vehicles, it is presenting an unwanted, new road safety risk for anyone driving towards them or even trying to pull out at a junction."

Just wondering; do train drivers get similar problems from the brighter headlights?
 
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irish_rail

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43525525

Just wondering; do train drivers get similar problems from the brighter headlights?
Yes absolutely!!! To be fair the IETS seem to have improved after numerous complaints and reports about being dazzled by them. Am waiting with baited breath to see what the new cRoss rail trains are like as the lack of a yellow warning panel tends to suggest paticularly bright headlights.
 

tellytype

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LED Headlights, and even worse new LED Lightbars on Ambos/Police etc at night. They leave such spots in my vision that I often cant see where I'm going properly for several minutes. Highly dangerous!
 

swt_passenger

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Most of the many previous threads that have usually started off discussing the changes to front end visibility rules, (ie that current headlight standards don’t require yellow panels etc.), have included a comment at some stage that the new lights are far too bright and dazzle drivers.

There are also previous discussions about LED signals being too bright for some drivers as well.
 

XCTurbostar

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Suppose we won’t have this problem once we all have automated cars and trains!! :lol:
 

robbeech

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LED Lighting is often not suitable for this kind of use. It is only in recent years that is has been approved for use in road vehicles, and only a few years before that were High Intensity Discharge (HID) lights approved. Before that there were quite strict guidelines on what could and couldn't be used on road vehicles. A non approved modification to HID or LED in a road vehicle is an MOT failure, you can also be stopped and prosecuted at the side of the road. I believe one of the rules is (It was when i was doing tests) that with a HID light there must be an automatic self levelling system to minimise the risk of dazzling other road users. Of course, if you modify a car without this then you will not necessarily have this system.
Emergency vehicles and LED blue lights is a current topic i am interested in. I find their use unacceptable on many occasions. To have the rear facing lights of an emergency vehicle (that is not parked) at full brightness at night is highly dangerous and i would not be surprised if there are not already incidents that have this partially to blame. There should be (and i am led to believe there is on at least some vehicles) an option to limit the brightness of these when necessary.

LED Technology has moved on hence its more frequent use in road (and rail) vehicles but what is also important is not how bright it is but the colour temperature. Varying CTs reflect off of different surfaces in a different ways. Higher colour temperature (more daylight colours, 6000k + often referred to as cool white) Are good for some things, but are more prone to dazzling oncoming traffic as they will reflect off of a shiny surface more prominently, wet roads being an obvious example. They are also poor in fog. A lower CT (More like an old tungsten lamp, 3400k give or take, often referred to as warm white) gives better illumination in foggy conditions but can appear to be less bright for a given output. This is why you'll often see front fog lamps on road vehicles utilising traditional lamps and even yellow filters. Of course this is often pointless as most road users are completely unaware of how and when to use front fog lights so their benefit is removed.

Slightly OT. In the theatre we often favour LED sources for some applications due to their flexibility, long life, and low current consumption but whilst technology is improving, a good old fashioned tungsten lamp has the "warmth*" that people expect to see on the stage.
Even more OT . There is lots of concern at the moment that generic tungsten lamps that have already been prohibited for sale for domestic use in the UK will soon be prohibited in the theatre and entertainment industry too.
 

theageofthetra

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Yes absolutely!!! To be fair the IETS seem to have improved after numerous complaints and reports about being dazzled by them. Am waiting with baited breath to see what the new cRoss rail trains are like as the lack of a yellow warning panel tends to suggest paticularly bright headlights.
They are a real problem in tunnels. Also they cause diffraction problems on certain types of cab windscreen.
 

Llanigraham

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LED Lighting is often not suitable for this kind of use. It is only in recent years that is has been approved for use in road vehicles, and only a few years before that were High Intensity Discharge (HID) lights approved. Before that there were quite strict guidelines on what could and couldn't be used on road vehicles. A non approved modification to HID or LED in a road vehicle is an MOT failure, you can also be stopped and prosecuted at the side of the road. I believe one of the rules is (It was when i was doing tests) that with a HID light there must be an automatic self levelling system to minimise the risk of dazzling other road users. Of course, if you modify a car without this then you will not necessarily have this system.
Was thought to be the case, but isn't actually in the Construction and Use Regulations, or the Vehicle Lighting Regs.However, if fitted, they must work.

Emergency vehicles and LED blue lights is a current topic i am interested in. I find their use unacceptable on many occasions. To have the rear facing lights of an emergency vehicle (that is not parked) at full brightness at night is highly dangerous and i would not be surprised if there are not already incidents that have this partially to blame. There should be (and i am led to believe there is on at least some vehicles) an option to limit the brightness of these when necessary.
Not according to the experts. They have proved that it makes people slow down, and therefore provides a safety element.
 

GB

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Re Cars.

Its not just new vehicles that are a problem. Also get a lot of glare from cars that have those cheap aftermarket conversions that either don't level and/or use the wrong headlight housing.
 

Astradyne

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The flashing bicycle headlights are the ones the blind me the most ... difference between being seen and blinding the on coming traffic
 

Sirgerbil

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I find in the DVT the lights from a 800 totally blind you, It's a very poor design.
 

Peter Mugridge

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Could any South West Railway drivers confirm my suspicion that the 455s are particularly bad offenders?

Given that they throw enough light to dazzle sideways until one is almost perpendicular to the front end I wonder how bad it is front on?
 

TheEdge

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The LO 317 and 315s have an odd modification Rather than being fitted with headlights they've had either 1940s searchlights or orbital lasers fitted.

Those are not comfortable to pass.
 

Shenandoah

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I was interested to see this RAC comment highlighted in newspapers. I have commented to my family about these type of vehicle lights a few times but had assumed it was just my old eyes. Of particular concern is the side lights of modern buses which are very bright and of course set higher than most car lights. Even though side lights they have a high intensity. I no longer enjoy driving after dark.
 

PeterC

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I was interested to see this RAC comment highlighted in newspapers. I have commented to my family about these type of vehicle lights a few times but had assumed it was just my old eyes. Of particular concern is the side lights of modern buses which are very bright and of course set higher than most car lights. Even though side lights they have a high intensity. I no longer enjoy driving after dark.
I used to love driving at night but now I am finding it hard work as well. One car came at me with what looked like full beam the other day. His response to being flashed was to show me how bright they were when really on full beam.
 

pompeyfan

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Could any South West Railway drivers confirm my suspicion that the 455s are particularly bad offenders?

Given that they throw enough light to dazzle sideways until one is almost perpendicular to the front end I wonder how bad it is front on?

455s aren’t really an issue, they use the same light cluster as 158s up and down the country. 456s, turbos and MPVs however are an issue in my opinion.
 

LeeLivery

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I've been complaining for a while over the use of very bright headlights on the roads.

PistonHeads thread from over a year ago

Staying on industry topic, some of the more recent LED based CIS display tech is way too bright IMO, especially where the ambient lighting is low, it can be almost painful to look at!

I don't like this push for white writing on black backgrounds. The screen at West Hampstead Thameslink with the white writing is awful, it's far too difficult to read from a distance. On the Thameslink core, a blue or white background like in Sydney would be much easier to read.
 

alxndr

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I've got young eyes and still dislike driving at night when there's several oncoming vehicles, particularly if they've got bright lights.

I find that the blue lights of emergency vehicles are too bright as well. I can understand that they need to be seen but I'm afraid I can't see the sense in dazzling people in the process. It might just be down to that particular windscreen, or the heated windscreen elements, but on at least one occasion a passing emergency vehicle has completely blinded me with the way it reflected across the screen.
 

TheEdge

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I'm glad to see it isn't just me who is finding night driving to be getting worse. I too find a lot of dazzling from cars on dipped beams, I myself have been flashed when I've been on dipped beams.
 

30909

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My old eyes are not keen on LED lights, my biggest worry is not the dazzle but the fact that the area beyond the light source is totally blacked out. If an object ( vehicle sideways on, pedestrian, animal, even an LED cyclist) is behind or side on to the approaching light I am worried that I will not see them. Can I assume that even with route knowledge and other safety systems this is a potential problem with objects on the railway?
 

Peter Mugridge

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455s aren’t really an issue, they use the same light cluster as 158s up and down the country. 456s, turbos and MPVs however are an issue in my opinion.

Do the ones on 158s protrude like those on the 455s and cast sideways as well as forwards or do they sit flush so that they are at least directional?
 
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I'm troubled by the glare from headlights and thought it might be me, but new lights are brighter and much more insensitive. Glare is a real problem even in daylight. At dusk it is much more dangerous. I think it should be sidelights only until black dark when the speed is 40 or below in towns.
 

Mintona

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IETs are pretty bright. Went past a 345 the other day and that was dazzling in the middle of a sunny day, so I’m dreading seeing one at night. See also some more modern green signals.
 

Lockwood

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I find that the blue lights of emergency vehicles are too bright as well. I can understand that they need to be seen but I'm afraid I can't see the sense in dazzling people in the process. It might just be down to that particular windscreen, or the heated windscreen elements, but on at least one occasion a passing emergency vehicle has completely blinded me with the way it reflected across the screen.

I like the ex-EEAST trucks I've driven. They have a low power light button. I thought that a strange thing, until seeing the glow from an EEAST truck about half a mile ahead in the fog above it.

If I was starting in an empty town centre at night, or doing a run along one of the long straight rural roads at night, I would knock them down to low power, which also slowed them down (Makes sense as the charge rate of the timing capacitors would be slower). It then also gave an extra option to me if someone was being clueless on the rural roads... you can't see my blue lights? How about NOW?

Some of the new plod cars are a bit extreme, with the roof lights, grille lights, behind the number plate lights...

Can't comment on fire engines. Not seen one on lights at night for ages.
 

Domh245

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Do the ones on 158s protrude like those on the 455s and cast sideways as well as forwards or do they sit flush so that they are at least directional?

The 158/SWR455 light cluster is a fairly standard cluster that can also be found on 323s, sprinters, pacers, and many other fleets which were initially fitted with the old style clusters with vertical rectangular marker lights. On 158s they are inside of a recess so should be reasonably directional, but most of the other fleets have them sat protruding like the 455s but I can't say I'd ever heard about them casting light sideways particularly.
 
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