methethpropbut
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"First class is located somewhere in the train, if you can find it..."
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EMT and First Class.
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nottsnurse
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Can those who can't face sharing the same carriage as riff raff not just look for where the hoi polloi aren't and assume they've reached their sanctuary?
westcoaster
Established Member
On a 222 look at the coupler, if it has a yellow strip on it First class is that end. That's how you tell when it pulls in , in the attached picture you can see the strip on the left hand unit.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=c...AUICSgB&biw=1024&bih=768#imgrc=bwowKcsmUGfFYM:
AnonymousUser1
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it appears the problem that EMT faces is the variety of routings and possible reversals , swap arounds etc ...
for the east coast route there;s a risk of being reversed in Newcastle but otherwise there's far fewer opprtunities to get swapped end for end in normal service
for the east coast route there;s a risk of being reversed in Newcastle but otherwise there's far fewer opprtunities to get swapped end for end in normal service
91109
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Sets will always get turned at Newcastle if they're in the wrong formation, VTEC seem to make a point of turning sets the right way round ASAP.
It is because if an incorrect formation message has slipped through for whatever reason the first station that spots it will correct it and Derby is further north than Leicester. One of the jobs Leicester station platform teams do in the morning is check every service to make sure no trains have slipped through the net before they reach Kettering etc. Errors can still appear though due to short notice set swaps and things like that.
Quite apart from customer service implications, it's quite important that discrepancies are reported as the control require to know which driving cab the train is being operated from for a whole load of reasons.
Back in about 1999, my mum and I travelled from St Pancras to Alfreton with our bikes, and I seem to remember that going one way we had to change at Loughborough which then had short platforms (the bit beyond the road bridge had been marked as off-limits, but the platform extension at the north end of the station hadn't been built), and the HST we were on was the wrong way round.
Because of that, I think the guard advised us to take our bikes out of the luggage area in the TGS at the last stop before Loughborough, and stay with them in the vestibule of our coach until we got off at Loughborough.
It's both.
cactustwirly
Established Member
It's normally quite accurate from my experience from Leicester, Loughborough & East Midlands Parkway
Here is an example of an EMT first class label on a door to a standard class carriage from a couple of months ago.
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bb21
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The have got much more accurate than before.
I find they are rarely wrong nowadays. I can't remember the last time they were wrong tbh.
Sorry, I was talking about the first door behind the drivers cab, its a staff only door so white on a 222
Actually. I'd quite forgotten (with the weather!) I travelled on the 21.42 EMT HST service from Derby to Leeds on Sat. 17th March.
On arrival into Derby, I noticed that first was at the leading end, the usual two first cars plus the buffet first. This was followed by a standard and surprisingly another full first had been inserted between it and the remainder of standard. My first thought was that it must be de-classified but there were no labels or indications anywhere to say that it was. Presumably it was a last minute substitution for a defective second but I was rather disappointed that it wasn't indicated as such.
On arrival into Derby, I noticed that first was at the leading end, the usual two first cars plus the buffet first. This was followed by a standard and surprisingly another full first had been inserted between it and the remainder of standard. My first thought was that it must be de-classified but there were no labels or indications anywhere to say that it was. Presumably it was a last minute substitution for a defective second but I was rather disappointed that it wasn't indicated as such.
cactustwirly
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Yeah there's a set running around with a first class carriage pretending to be Coach D, it's declassified and has been like that since at least August.
bb21
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At a time recently there were two sets running like that. NL04 and NL08 a couple of months ago I think.
There is still one set running around with a declassified First. It was in a short rake of 7 last week, but seems to have been made back up to 8 today, still sandwiched between 43064 and 43081 like last week. 41113 seems to be a permanent fixture atm as a Standard Class offering.
There is still one set running around with a declassified First. It was in a short rake of 7 last week, but seems to have been made back up to 8 today, still sandwiched between 43064 and 43081 like last week. 41113 seems to be a permanent fixture atm as a Standard Class offering.
Or just bad planning with the stock...
I would have thought having First Class at the London end would also be a little advertising for First Class, as everyone has to walk past it to get to their coach.
Downside would mean late people trapsing through First Class.
Solved by having people at doors of the First Class sections, but that means increased staff.
But the change should be edited through Darwin and thus replicate everywhere so when the train reaches Derby, it shouldn't be displaying wrong.
Isn't there a VTEC buffet coach in one of those sets too?
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bb21
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Yes, but not in the current "mixed" rake.
Leicester pick up the changes because they see every set so if one gets missed (it happens, dispatcher busy forgets to report it or whatever) they report it through. It's crucial information for the staff as well as for example if you have a wheelchair user for first class at the wrong end of a 7 car 222 it can take a while to get them to the right end.
Again - there are a huge number of reversals involved on the Trent triangle and at Nottingham already plus on Sundays at the moment when every train reverses at Leicester. It's not financially viable to sort out at this train operator which is operationally different to most out and back London operators. You might think it's hugely important. I think you're incorrect. What definitely is important is correctly advertising the formation.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Deleted - I posted this already ages ago!
cactustwirly
Established Member
It was with 43066 & 43076 last week.
There's also another set (with the VTEC buffet) which only has 7 coaches.
MG11
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It's not always possible to have First Class at a certain end and it really doesn't make much difference anyway. First Class is more about having a confortable lounge to wait for one's train in, larger and reclining seats, increased staff presence and the opportunity to purchase a hot meal.
mallard
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As someone who commutes by EMT (and XC with a change at Leicester) and who likes to be as close to the London end of the EMT train as possible due to conveninence (access to the exits/bridge at Leicester), I find that the "first class is at the front/rear" information is wrong roughly 10-25% of the time.
It's particularly annoying when 10-car (2x5 car 222) trains are annouced as having first class "at the front" or "at the back"; usually that is accurate for one unit, but it's not consistent which. I also don't understand why the computer voice is unable to say "and front/centre/rear" for 2-unit trains. The only "useful" thing the voice can say for 2-unit trains is "in the centre" (it usually says "is available on the train" in most cases), but I suppose that's what you get with bargain-basement voice software. At least it's not the "Steven Hawking (RIP) voice that can't pronounce half the stations properly" that you get at stations that the managing TOC would clearly rather not bother with.
It's particularly annoying when 10-car (2x5 car 222) trains are annouced as having first class "at the front" or "at the back"; usually that is accurate for one unit, but it's not consistent which. I also don't understand why the computer voice is unable to say "and front/centre/rear" for 2-unit trains. The only "useful" thing the voice can say for 2-unit trains is "in the centre" (it usually says "is available on the train" in most cases), but I suppose that's what you get with bargain-basement voice software. At least it's not the "Steven Hawking (RIP) voice that can't pronounce half the stations properly" that you get at stations that the managing TOC would clearly rather not bother with.
43096
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It's the other way round on an HST. If the first door on the stock is white, it's the standard class end as the TGS van door is white.
MG11
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They do generally try to have First Class at the centre on double units, which makes sense. With the railway network being so busy and a lack of paths though, it doesn't make sense to delay trains just so that First Class can be at one end. Your point is a valid reason for wanting First Class to be at the city end, but not everyone gets off at Leicester. The only other advantage is at Sheffield and Derby, passengers can leave the FC Lounge and have the First Class carriage waiting outisde for them.
bb21
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Probably swapped again during the week. It was on set NL11 (64+81) on Thursday. Either that or there were again two sets running around which I didn't realise.
A lot of changes atm. 41113 was in set NL11 yesterday but appears to have been swapped out today.
Another thought has occurred to me regarding EMT and first class:
An HST has eight carriages (usually) two of which are First plus the buffet first.
The longest Meridians have seven cars, three of which are first.
Do Meridians have a disproportionate amount of First accommodation by comparison with an HST?
An HST has eight carriages (usually) two of which are First plus the buffet first.
The longest Meridians have seven cars, three of which are first.
Do Meridians have a disproportionate amount of First accommodation by comparison with an HST?
hexagon789
Veteran Member
The 7-car 222s have a higher % of First than the HSTs, it was arguably worse in the original 4-car sets with about 1.5 coaches of First. Now though most of the Composite coach is standard class.
MG11
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This crops up on Twitter often and the team always state that the capacity is needed during peak times.
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