Passengers call for rethink over ‘steep steps’ on north-east bus

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

So Aberdeenshire and Moray locals are moaning again about the steps on Stagecoach North Scotlands new coaches.

This is the 3rd time residents have complained about steps on new coaches over the past 3 years (X7, Buchan Xpress and 10).

Personally while i do think there was an issue with the steps on the Interdecks (which has now been resolved), there's no issue at all with the new Elites on the 10, they're not steep at all. It's just locals moaning at the slightest thing, after-all they'd be first to moan if a Enviro300 turned up!

A multimillion-pound fleet of new buses has come under fire amid accusations their steps are too steep for some passengers to get up.

Stagecoach introduced the 10 luxury coaches in November last year at a cost of £2.75million to run the busy route from Aberdeen to Inverness.

Now the plush vehicles have been criticised for being almost impossible for some pensioners and disabled people to access.

The operator insisted that the buses comply with all the required legislation.

But Moray MP Douglas Ross revealed that travellers have witnessed some passengers being “physically pushed” up the steps due to them being unable to make the climb themselves.

And Eleanor Hayward, secretary of Forres Community Council, has heard complaints from town residents saying they have found the access “virtually impossible”.

She said: “The steps on the new coaches are not fit for purpose for those who are disabled.

“The design has not taken into account those who are less able in our communities but still wish to lead an independent life. It’s particularly important for those attending hospital appointments in Elgin and Aberdeen.

“I consider myself to be reasonably fit but even I struggle with them, just because they are too steep.”

Both the community council and Mr Ross have now written to Stagecoach’s manager in the region, Mark Whitelocks, to review the buses.

The firm has been urged to consider using vehicles which are capable of lowering their front ramps to provide a shorter step onto the vehicle.

Mr Ross said: “There’s a concern that Stagecoach is failing it is duty to the public to provide adequate access.

“I’ve been told that people have seen a frail elderly lady using the bus had to position herself to be able to physically push her disabled husband up the steps after his wheelchair was stowed underneath by the driver.

“It really is unacceptable and should not be happening when there are other buses with better access available.”

A spokeswoman for Stagecoach North Scotland said: “Our brand-new fleet operating on service 10 from Aberdeen to Inverness has been very welcome news to the local communities since their introduction in November.

“All of our buses and coaches fully comply with all the required legislation. We will respond to letters from Douglas Ross and Forres Community Council.”

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/f...r-rethink-over-steep-steps-on-north-east-bus/

RailUK Forums

Bletchleyite · 28 Mar 2018

Are the lifts only suitable for wheelchair users? If so, this does indeed seem somewhat of a gap, wheelchair users are not the only people who cannot climb steps.

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

Bletchleyite said:
Are the lifts only suitable for wheelchair users? If so, this does indeed seem somewhat of a gap, wheelchair users are not the only people who cannot climb steps.

It's a 4 long hour route rural route, people would be quick to moan if buses appeared. The Buchan Services are less than half the length and even when a coach seated E300 turns up they all complain as it's a "bus for city services".

I'm fairly sure in the worst case scenario they could use the lift. But as i say coaches operate the service for a reason and in my opinion they are more than suited.

Bletchleyite · 28 Mar 2018

I don't have an issue with the use of coaches (I'd like to see more services like the Oxford-Cambridge X5, and Scotland does have a good many) - but the lift really does need to be suitable for more than just wheelchair users. There are plenty of people out there with bad knees who have issues with steps but can still walk acceptably or with a stick or crutches so do not need a wheelchair. For obvious reasons, a wheelchair is a last resort for most people when there is no viable option to use assistance to walk upright in some way.

If the lifts aren't suitable for a person not in a wheelchair to be assisted to board, then someone failed on the old "assuming disabled = wheelchair user" thing, which you'd think people had got past by now.

If the drivers aren't offering to use them but they are suitable, the drivers need retraining so they do offer to use them proactively.

daikilo · 28 Mar 2018

I don't know the configuration of the Elites in question but I imagine there are potentially two issues 1) the step up to board the vehichle and any lift or ramp installed for wheelchair passengers, 2) any steps inside the vehichle from the boarding platform up to the seating area.

The second point is nigh-on impossible to resolve bar a stairlift for a person unable to climb stairs. If this is expected to be a local service route catering for physical disabilities, the Elite is the wrong vehichle.

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

There are alternatives along the route.

The coaches do not have a steep staircase at all, the lift is suitable for persons not in a wheelchair (There is a grab rail either side of the lift platform). Buses operating the service are simply not an option due to it's length and the fact it's meant to go up against the train.

This is really a non issue in my eyes, it's just locals looking for something to moan about.

overthewater · 28 Mar 2018

Stagecoach tried out low floor buses on part of the X7 and it run empty most of the time...

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

overthewater said:
Stagecoach tried out low floor buses on part of the X7 and it run empty most of the time...

Not strictly true, Only the X6 and X8 are low floor routes.

The X6 is a short working to provide a half hourly service between Aberdeen and Stonehaven (It loops round Stonehaven unlike the X7). This uses a mix of mainly ALX400s and the odd Plaxton Panther.

The X7 has never been operated by low floor buses (other than when covering for Interdecks/Elites), the only time it did was back when it was a much shorter peak time variation of the 107 (Aberdeen to Stonehaven). But that is a different service to the current one.

The X8 is a variation that offers a low floor option between Arbroath, Dundee, Ninewells Hospital and Perth Royal Infirmary. The only reasons it runs empty is because the demand isn't there for a half hourly service and people see the X7 as being a better service due to it using smart coaches rather than tired E400s. Ironically it was only brought in after residents moaned about the steps on the Interdecks and will be withdrawn/replaced by the merge of the 16 and 39 next month.

GusB · 28 Mar 2018

A while back, someone posted a picture of a proposed Plaxton design which was half low-floor and had a high-floor section at the rear - a sort of Enviro/Panther hybrid. I haven't heard anything more about it since. That would certainly be a compromise for longer distance routes in the North East which carry local passengers.

overthewater · 28 Mar 2018

Dam, I should have said There have low floor buses on X8.

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

GusB said:
A while back, someone posted a picture of a proposed Plaxton design which was half low-floor and had a high-floor section at the rear - a sort of Enviro/Panther hybrid. I haven't heard anything more about it since. That would certainly be a compromise for longer distance routes in the North East which carry local passengers.

Plaxton put a teaser photo on their social media sites a few days back showing part of it. I believe it's going to be called the Plaxton Tiger. Sadly it's on a B8RLE chassis so wouldn't be suited to the 10 at all. Royal Deeside services would be perfect for it though!

overthewater said:
Dam, I should have said There have low floor buses on X8.

ChathillMan · 28 Mar 2018

No way in hell Stagecoach Bluebird will put normal buses on the 10. A lot of money has been spent and It would scare off a lot of long distance passengers at a time when HST stock is coming very soon to the Aberdeen to Inverness rail line - so they need to keep as many passengers as possible.

The very same coaches are type approved and are used in other parts of the UK, such as the South West Falcon and X5. I am not aware of any local backlash with those routes.

However, I do accept the local MP is passing on the concerns, that's his job. But he would be the first to moan if Stagecoach reduced the service as the number of long distance passengers fell due to using an E300 (or worse, an MAN) instead of a more suitable coach...

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

ChathillMan said:
No way in hell Stagecoach Bluebird will put normal buses on the 10. A lot of money has been spent and It would scare off a lot of long distance passengers at a time when HST stock is coming very soon to the Aberdeen to Inverness rail line - so they need to keep as many passengers as possible.

The very same coaches are type approved and are used in other parts of the UK, such as the South West Falcon and X5. I am not aware of any local backlash with those routes.

However, I do accept the local MP is passing on the concerns, that's his job. But he would be the first to moan if Stagecoach reduced the service as the number of long distance passengers fell due to using an E300 (or worse, an MAN) instead of a more suitable coach...

As i say it's just locals looking for something to moan about. You should see the reactions on peoples faces when a little tiny Solo turns up on a 201 to Braemar!

GusB · 28 Mar 2018

Jordan Adam said:
Plaxton put a teaser photo on their social media sites a few days back showing part of it. I believe it's going to be called the Plaxton Tiger. Sadly it's on a B8RLE chassis so wouldn't be suited to the 10 at all. Royal Deeside services would be perfect for it though!

Why wouldn't the B8RLE be suitable?

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

GusB said:
Why wouldn't the B8RLE be suitable?

Too under powered for the size of body they'd be dragging along. Keep in mind the new low entry coach is a 14M long Tri-axle with lots of glass. Even the B9R's that were previously on couldn't cope, and the B7Rs before that!

The 10 is too demanding for such a set up. If they were on a B11R chassis it would be fine.

ChathillMan · 28 Mar 2018

Jordan Adam said:
As i say it's just locals looking for something to moan about. You should see the reactions on peoples faces when a little tiny Solo turns up on a 201 to Braemar!

haha. I bet. I agree they are having a moan.

Not sure what is available now on the bus market, but something like the old Stagecoach Fife tri-axle Omnilinks would be a good halfway house for some coach operated routes. They do feel like a coach and are low floor.

GusB · 28 Mar 2018

Too under powered for the size of body they'd be dragging along. Keep in mind the new low entry coach is a 14M long Tri-axle with lots of glass. Even the B9R's that were previously on couldn't cope, and the B7Rs before that!

The 10 is too demanding for such a set up. If they were on a B11R chassis it would be fine.

Ah, fair point I suppose. I was going to say that it didn't seem so long since B7Rs were used on the 10, but I only ever experienced them between Elgin and Forres. The last time I took a trip on the 10 from Elgin to Aberdeen it was the B10M that ruled the roost!

Mind you, if you think a modern B8RLE is underpowered, you've obviously never been on a crawl up the Tyrebagger in one of the ex-National Welsh Leyland Tigers that once plied the route...

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

ChathillMan said:
haha. I bet. I agree they are having a moan.

Not sure what is available now on the bus market, but something like the old Stagecoach Fife tri-axle Omnilinks would be a good halfway house for some coach operated routes. They do feel like a coach and are low floor.

Ohh those things..... The Omnilinks that were off the road more than on it.

If the new Plaxton Tiger was on the B11R chassis i'd suggest it, but there's no point having a good body if the chassis is wrong for the application.

daikilo · 28 Mar 2018

The first such route I discovered was the Crosville Cymru Coastliner from Chester to Caernarvon in about 1970 with a dedicated fleet of Bristol RELL/ECWs. They had a small-step entrance and a rising floor front to back, and semi-coach seats. A compromise that was so successful it became a double-decker, which was not the ideal vehichle.

overthewater · 28 Mar 2018

Jordan Adam said:
Ohh those things..... The Omnilinks that were off the road more than on it.

If the new Plaxton Tiger was on the B11R chassis i'd suggest it, but there's no point having a good body if the chassis is wrong for the application.

I wish that was the only troubles with the Ominlinks... Air con never worked; thus in hot days it was like a boiler inside them and in winter there were like fridges. Lets see if the new low floor coaches will work on the X55. Mind you I doubt they need B9 or B11 chassis on a route like X55..

Mind you how did all those people deal with the buses back in the day? stairway to Heaven?

GusB · 28 Mar 2018

overthewater said:
I wish that was the only troubles with the Ominlinks... Air con never worked; thus in hot days it was like a boiler inside them and in winter there were like fridges. Lets see if the new low floor coaches will work on the X55. Mind you I doubt they need B9 or B11 chassis on a route like X55..

Mind you how did all those people deal with the buses back in the day? stairway to Heaven?

Aye, there's "step entrance" and "step entrance"!

I'm at risk of taking this thread off-topic, but when you post pics like that I can't help myself. The Lancets did have a bit of a climb to get in, but I had a bit of a soft spot for them, particularly A506FSS pictured here. It was allocated to Elgin depot from new, from memory, and became the dedicated vehicle on my local route for a time. The rest of the "class" of six eventually made their way up here. I heard stories from local drivers that the Aberdeen drivers refused to drive them because they were too fast, but I've no idea how true that was.

Jordan Adam · 28 Mar 2018

overthewater said:
I wish that was the only troubles with the Ominlinks... Air con never worked; thus in hot days it was like a boiler inside them and in winter there were like fridges. Lets see if the new low floor coaches will work on the X55. Mind you I doubt they need B9 or B11 chassis on a route like X55..

Mind you how did all those people deal with the buses back in the day? stairway to Heaven?

Stagecoach replaced quite a bit of the electrical parts on the Omnilinks with ADL parts. So i'm fairly sure that caused issues. The B9 chassis is no longer offered (thankfully). But the B11 is the perfect size imo.

overthewater · 28 Mar 2018

Jordan Adam said:
Stagecoach replaced quite a bit of the electrical parts on the Omnilinks with ADL parts. .

The Aircon was bad from day one alas. Also where many of the parts replaced with ADL parts after there were all pulled off the road due to a major fault?

175mph · 29 Mar 2018

overthewater said:
I wish that was the only troubles with the Ominlinks... Air con never worked; thus in hot days it was like a boiler inside them and in winter there were like fridges. Lets see if the new low floor coaches will work on the X55. Mind you I doubt they need B9 or B11 chassis on a route like X55..

Mind you how did all those people deal with the buses back in the day? stairway to Heaven?

Thankfully we are a bit more disability aware these days, although I get where you're coming from.

Passengers call for rethink over ‘steep steps’ on north-east bus

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