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GWR operating short 'HSTGTi' sets (see diagrams section for workings)

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TEW

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On 43016+43093 now on 2C51, 1755 Plymouth-Penzance. Changes certainly far less substantial than were carried out on the Chiltern sets. Interior refurbished in to the GWR scheme but no changes to the layout. Vestibule area largely the same as before, with only minor detail changes. Half the toilets have been taken out, but the handles have simply been taken off the doors and the space is not reused. Doors do not seem excessively slow like speculated earlier in this thread.
 

HSTEd

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Why would they take half the toilets out if they aren't going to reuse the space?
 

TEW

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It is because there is only space for one retention tank per coach I believe. This 4 car set has 3 toilets. 1 has been locked out of use having run out of water, and another has run out of toilet paper and hand towels. So I would hardly describe them as having an over provision of toilets. The toilets themselves have been redesigned, the sliding door pocket clearly encroaching on the original space. The new design is rather pokey to say the least.
 

Goldfish62

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It is because there is only space for one retention tank per coach I believe. This 4 car set has 3 toilets. 1 has been locked out of use having run out of water, and another has run out of toilet paper and hand towels. So I would hardly describe them as having an over provision of toilets. The toilets themselves have been redesigned, the sliding door pocket clearly encroaching on the original space. The new design is rather pokey to say the least.
What I mean by over provision is that you wouldn't expect more than two toilets per four coach regional unit, for that is what these HSTs are now
 

TEW

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But this train has 3, and after 13 hours in service, 2 are unusable. I would describe that as an underprovision, not an overprovision.
 

Domh245

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But this train has 3, and after 13 hours in service, 2 are unusable. I would describe that as an underprovision, not an overprovision.
I would describe that as operational difficulties rather than anything over or under provison of toilets onboard
 

TEW

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Regional trains are rarely filled up with water during the day, you need enough toilets, with enough capacity in the water tanks to last a day. If there was another toilet available, it is less likely that the other two would have run out of supplies. The TGS does not have a toilet fitted, it would have been better if it had been, providing 4 toilets for a 4 car set.
 

Non Multi

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I would describe that as operational difficulties rather than anything over or under provison of toilets onboard
It's certainly an 'operational difficulty' :oops: if you need the loo and all the bogs are out of order!
 

abbo1234

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Its a pity Northern cant get a few of these for the Cumbrian coast line.They would be ideal.
 

Goldfish62

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But this train has 3, and after 13 hours in service, 2 are unusable. I would describe that as an underprovision, not an overprovision.
Try the trains I usually travel on. 10 coaches, four toilets often all locked out of use and a potential journey time of 80 minutes. But that's not an under provision. That's a maintenence issue.
 

43096

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It is because there is only space for one retention tank per coach I believe.
Correct. One end of a Mark 3 has the air tanks and brake equipment under it, the other end has an empty space.
 

Domh245

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Confirmation today in staff notices that power cars are to be named after Castles. No details yet.

Replacing the existing names presumably? Seems a bit odd though as 43093 only gained it's current name recently
 

Starmill

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The lack of interior layout modification is a bit odd. They are not exactly very pleasant to spend hours on, and pretty awful for people standing or with bulky luggage. Plus I thought they would want something more tourist friendly, rather than the crazy layout with 2 tables.
 

Starmill

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Complete overkill.
Well quite. But only in the ways that they are also overkill right where they are.

If they were going to get some they would be better on regional express services
Isn't it interesting that it's claimed that in Cornwall these are the answer for local stopping services, you claim that in Northern England they are the answer for regional express services and in Scotland they are claimed to be the answer for intercity services? Despite being basically the same train? Does this not suggest that what they are actually really suitable for is probably... nothing.
 
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Starmill

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The new design is rather pokey to say the least.
I have to say I am very surprised there is room for the ridiculous door pocket, the toilet and the corridor there. I'm also disappointed that the rubbish pressure pad doors are still there.
 

43096

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I have to say I am very surprised there is room for the ridiculous door pocket, the toilet and the corridor there. I'm also disappointed that the rubbish pressure pad doors are still there.
Why is the door pocket "ridiculous"? Any better ideas?
 

LOL The Irony

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Why is the door pocket "ridiculous"? Any better ideas?
Chiltern plug doors.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of pocket doors on an EXPRESS passenger train when they were designed to speed up boarding on STOPPING trains. IMO it looks daft and out of place. Plug doors also keep the lines clean rather than the break-up of them on the Super Hitachi Intercity Trains.
 
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43096

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Chiltern plug doors.

EDIT: Also, what's the point of pocket doors on an EXPRESS passenger train when they were designed to speed up boarding on STOPPING trains. IMO it looks daft and out of place. Plug doors also keep the lines clean rather than the break-up of them on the Super Hitachi Intercity Trains.
Plug doors on mark 3s are difficult and expensive to do. That is why Wabtec have come up with the sliding door mod.
 

Bletchleyite

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Chiltern plug doors.

Very expensive because they have to fit perfectly (there is room for a bit of movement in a sliding door), and over time the bodyshells have distorted so no two are exactly the same shape. A bit like fitting new doors to a house in a way, you have to spend ages with a plane getting it the right shape because things move and no two doorways are ever exactly the same.
 

Bletchleyite

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Isn't it interesting that it's claimed that in Cornwall these are the answer for local stopping services, you claim that in Northern England they are the answer for regional express services and in Scotland they are claimed to be the answer for intercity services? Despite being basically the same train? Does this not suggest that what they are actually really suitable for is probably... nothing.

The Cornish mainline services are medium-speed regional expresses based on the distance between the stations. They aren't local stopping services in the sense of the Cumbrian Coast. They're more comparable with Manchester to Blackpool/Barrow semifasts, really.

If I was looking for new stock for the Cornish mainline regional services it'd look a bit like a 4-car Class 158, I reckon (none of those going spare, else I'm sure that's what they would use). If I was looking for new stock for the Cumbrian Coast it'd look a lot like a 2-car Stadler WINK or something. They're not similar just because both call at all stations.
 
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