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FCC cleaner than Southern?

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SouthEastern-465

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I was traveling to Brighton about a week ago,and I boarded a Loaned Southern Class 377,on a FCC service to Brighton and I was In first class and the train felt very clean,but when I boarded the Class 377 home It was a Southern service to London Bridge and It felt quite dirty compared to the FCC one.

I have noticed this on SouthEastern services to the always feel grimey but most FCC services feel very clean Indeed.

Has anyone else noticed this or had the same kind of thing on diffrent TOCs?
 
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Skarpur

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Can't say I've ever had any problems with cleanliness on Southern, been on FCC swapping to Southern at East Croyden a number of times and never noticed anything wrong with the cleanliness between the two.
 

thefab444

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Was this loaned unit a 377/2 or a 377/5 - remember ever the 377s which carry FCC livery are actually SN units on hire - hence the interior.

The early build 377/1 I travelled on the other day was a bit poor inside, especially when compared to a similarly aged 450 which was still pretty spotless.
 

SouthEastern-465

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Was this loaned unit a 377/2 or a 377/5 - remember ever the 377s which carry FCC livery are actually SN units on hire - hence the interior.

The early build 377/1 I travelled on the other day was a bit poor inside, especially when compared to a similarly aged 450 which was still pretty spotless.
It was a class 377/2 on loan,but was Incredibly clean and you could feel it to,I got to agree to I have noticed that simular units like the class 450s are better quality.
Regards
 

CMS

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The Southeastern 465s are absolutely digusting, they smell, the seats are dusty and all journeys are uncomfortable. The most annoying thing is the CIS though. i.e. constantly saying, something like, "Welcome To Southeastern 70 to ORPINGTON calling at all stations via Herne Hill, Beckenham Junction, Bromley South and Petts Wood..." which i imagine it will repeat over 250 times!!! However I do like the noise of the 465s slamming doors, departing and accelarating... plus this lady.
 

thefab444

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You like... her?! What are you smoking man? :|

I agree though, those Networker screens are awful...

"Welcome to Southeastern"
"00 TO CANNON STREET...............................?"
 

SouthEastern-465

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The Southeastern 465s are absolutely digusting, they smell, the seats are dusty and all journeys are uncomfortable. The most annoying thing is the CIS though. i.e. constantly saying, something like, "Welcome To Southeastern 70 to ORPINGTON calling at all stations via Herne Hill, Beckenham Junction, Bromley South and Petts Wood..." which i imagine it will repeat over 250 times!!! However I do like the noise of the 465s slamming doors, departing and accelarating... plus this lady.

How dear you call a Class 465 that!

I admit they are dirty but what do expect from a train that has not be for a refurb since NSE was around,the seats are like sofas you can pick the cusions up (which are uncomftable) and they have the smell of cheap disinfectent,but this is only the 465/0,465/1.465/2 the 465/9s are very nice and they should all have an interirior like that.

Anyway they are my favorite train,and I love them to bits,and the noise they make when there parting a station is music to my ears.(exluding the hitaci noise ones).
Regards
 

Evvy73

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I think you got a little bit lucky by traveling on a 377 as the FCC 319's are generally dreadful - expect to find newspapers left all over the place, empty drinks cans rolling about under the seats and empty food wrappers left in all kinds of places. And don't get me started on the appalling seats!

On the rare occasion I have been lucky enough to get a FCC 377 it has been noticeably cleaner and tidier than a 319 - maybe part of the loan deal from Southern to FCC was "You will keep all of our 377's clean and tidy!" ;)
 

Daimler

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The early build 377/1 I travelled on the other day was a bit poor inside, especially when compared to a similarly aged 450 which was still pretty spotless.

I've noticed similar things - Southern seem fairly poor at maintaining cleanliness. Either that, or the 377s just wear really poorly (or both, of course!).
 

ungreat

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- expect to find newspapers left all over the place, empty drinks cans rolling about under the seats and empty food wrappers left in all kinds of places.

:

And that my friend,is caused by lack of cleaning staff (job cuts)and bone idle dirty lazy passengers who can't get off their idle fat backsides and put their crap in a bin.I would love to collect all the rubbish,puke etc off our late nighters on the GN and give it back to them as they leave the station.
 

paul1609

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I've noticed similar things - Southern seem fairly poor at maintaining cleanliness. Either that, or the 377s just wear really poorly (or both, of course!).

The 377/1s and 3s actually predated the 450s in service by 2 to 3 years. Southern plan a mini refresh for them now that the new franchise is signed and sealed. They are also taking on more cleaners at brighton.

My experience travelling up from the coast is that the trains are pretty clean leaving the depot. The main problems seem to be with the CE toilets and with the service area which is admittedly beginning to look scruffy.
 

Aictos

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And that my friend,is caused by lack of cleaning staff (job cuts)and bone idle dirty lazy passengers who can't get off their idle fat backsides and put their crap in a bin.I would love to collect all the rubbish,puke etc off our late nighters on the GN and give it back to them as they leave the station.

Well said, you won't get any argument from me against your idea in fact probably a few staff would love to join you including me!
 

Jim

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I spend a week on the Southern in late July, and apart from the obvious problems you will always ecounter with a train that is liable to operate in the London area, they were clean enough. The obvious things I include to be chewing gum on a selection of seats, and my main annoyance, scuff marks where people have had their feet on the seats.

Every train I got on at a starting point seemed to have a fairly thorough run through with a (wo)man with a rubbish back, clearing out the sides of the seats as well.

Full credit to Southern I think, their stock seemed tidy enough.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've noticed similar things - Southern seem fairly poor at maintaining cleanliness. Either that, or the 377s just wear really poorly (or both, of course!).

Remembering that some have been in service for over 6years, and if you think about how many backsides sit on each seat a day then they probabaly just do wear quickly, but I think the /1's (the 'Express' units, with all table seating) have probably worn the worst, but saying that I wasn't too impressed with the /2's
 
Last edited:

Daimler

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I spend a week on the Southern in late July, and apart from the obvious problems you will always ecounter with a train that is liable to operate in the London area, they were clean enough. The obvious things I include to be chewing gum on a selection of seats, and my main annoyance, scuff marks where people have had their feet on the seats.

Every train I got on at a starting point seemed to have a fairly thorough run through with a (wo)man with a rubbish back, clearing out the sides of the seats as well.

Full credit to Southern I think, their stock seemed tidy enough.

I don't have any complaints with tidyness - my problems lie with stains on the carpet, seats, and 'carpet' on the sides of the carriage - the whole thing feels ingrained with dirt. The fact that the Southern seating upholstery material is awful only heightens this (I'm usually talking 377/4s here, with the 'astroturf' moquette).
 

jon0844

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I think there's a difference between rubbish being left and the train being 'dirty'. I've also seen many FCC staff (or contractors) going through during the turnaround with a bin bag collecting papers, bottles, cartons etc - and other passengers who have already boarded usually help by passing things over.

At night, I guess FCC don't employ them. The train I saw at King's Cross Friday night looked like a group of people had raided an off licence.. although, to be fair, the bottles and cans were all placed neatly on the (small) tables. I'm sure the bins on that train were probably full.

When it comes to actual dirt, I find the FCC trains to be very clean indeed - and it's clear they get cleaned regularly. I've never got on a train in the morning to find it messy. I also think they must clean the seat bases quite often too, as I've seen the mess left by shoes on seats - but that would mean they'd all be ruined by now if they weren't cleaned.

What's more, there's a lady that I see very often (so she must work almost 24/7!!) walking through trains and inspecting seat backs, dust on the top of route information signs, behind seats, toilets etc - and noting it all down. This suggests FCC is constantly checking that their cleaners are doing a good job.

I can't speak for other operators as I don't use them often enough, but overall I'd say their trains are kept in excellent condition - considering it only takes one single trip (possibly only a few stops) for passengers to fill it with rubbish.
 

SouthEastern-465

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I spend a week on the Southern in late July, and apart from the obvious problems you will always ecounter with a train that is liable to operate in the London area, they were clean enough. The obvious things I include to be chewing gum on a selection of seats, and my main annoyance, scuff marks where people have had their feet on the seats.

Every train I got on at a starting point seemed to have a fairly thorough run through with a (wo)man with a rubbish back, clearing out the sides of the seats as well.

Full credit to Southern I think, their stock seemed tidy enough.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Remembering that some have been in service for over 6years, and if you think about how many backsides sit on each seat a day then they probabaly just do wear quickly, but I think the /1's (the 'Express' units, with all table seating) have probably worn the worst, but saying that I wasn't too impressed with the /2's

No affense but it does not matter how old a EMU/DMU is it should be clean/cleaned whatever the age of the Multiple Unit,and 6 years old for a EMU is not alot taking into account that there life is 30YRs +
Regards
 

Aictos

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What's more, there's a lady that I see very often (so she must work almost 24/7!!) walking through trains and inspecting seat backs, dust on the top of route information signs, behind seats, toilets etc - and noting it all down. This suggests FCC is constantly checking that their cleaners are doing a good job.

Sounds like one of our SQMS colleagues who's main priority is to ensure FCC work to the highest standards possible and who's manager I think if I remember reports directly to the MD.

They check everything from trains to staff to stations etc...
 

Jim

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Sounds like one of our SQMS colleagues who's main priority is to ensure FCC work to the highest standards possible and who's manager I think if I remember reports directly to the MD.

They check everything from trains to staff to stations etc...

Don't mention the secret inspectors! Employed directly by group, and Sir Lockhead IIRC
 

SouthEastern-465

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The Southeastern 465s are absolutely digusting, they smell, the seats are dusty and all journeys are uncomfortable. The most annoying thing is the CIS though. i.e. constantly saying, something like, "Welcome To Southeastern 70 to ORPINGTON calling at all stations via Herne Hill, Beckenham Junction, Bromley South and Petts Wood..." which i imagine it will repeat over 250 times!!! However I do like the noise of the 465s slamming doors, departing and accelarating... plus this lady.

I can not see how you hate the Infomation annoucements and then like that lady?

She does the commenting on everything on SE services so why do you moan about the announcements and then say you like the lady as the lady does every anouncement for SE.
 

Jim

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No affense but it does not matter how old a EMU/DMU is it should be clean/cleaned whatever the age of the Multiple Unit,and 6 years old for a EMU is not alot taking into account that there life is 30YRs +
Regards

True true, but remember most trains have a mid-life refurbishment after 12-15 years. I agree (and commented) that it probabaly isn't as good as it should be!
 

SouthEastern-465

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True true, but remember most trains have a mid-life refurbishment after 12-15 years. I agree (and commented) that it probabaly isn't as good as it should be!

Im just curious but do you know what things the Southern-Class 377's will get in there mini refurb?
 

Richardr

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I think you got a little bit lucky by traveling on a 377 as the FCC 319's are generally dreadful - expect to find newspapers left all over the place, empty drinks cans rolling about under the seats and empty food wrappers left in all kinds of places.

I'm sure part of this started when the bins were removed from stations in the London area.
 

jon0844

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I suppose it had to happen; boarded my train this morning (FCC 0902 Hatfield to KGX) to find it full of rubbish on the floor and seats. Torn up bits of paper (not Metro), upper crust wrappers and drinks all rolling around. Not very pleasant.

Now that may be from an earlier morning service, but I suspect it was from the evening/night before.

Yes, FCC should have cleaned it (if it was left overnight) but clearly the real fault lies with the passengers that did it - there are bins throughout the carriage.
 

thefab444

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I can not see how you hate the Infomation annoucements and then like that lady?

She does the commenting on everything on SE services so why do you moan about the announcements and then say you like the lady as the lady does every anouncement for SE.

As far as I know, she is limited to usage on the platforms. There is also a much better male voice used at some SE stations. The on train announcements are provided by a different voice over artist, on the stock which equipped with them - 465s aren't. I believe the OP was referring to the information screens.
 

SouthEastern-465

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As far as I know, she is limited to usage on the platforms. There is also a much better male voice used at some SE stations. The on train announcements are provided by a different voice over artist, on the stock which equipped with them - 465s aren't. I believe the OP was referring to the information screens.

Very Very sexist saying you prefer the man!

Anyway I thought all the announcements were the same woman,with that moany old voice that gets on everyones nerves.

I have never ever heard the man,is he the one that does the "Southern" announcements aswell?

Back on cleaness thing I was on a FCC Class 319 and it was ok but it was like a rubbish tip,and there are bins everywhere and I cant see why people dont throw there rubbish away,but I guess theres more of a challenging job for the cleaners that go threw after!

Anyway for those who want a nice clean comfy journey on FCC (Not Great Northern Route) go on a loaned "Southern" Class 377 while you can.
Regards
 
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