Unfair fare evasion prosecution

captain pants · 2 May 2018

Wondering if anyone had some tips/experience for my problem.

I travel on a weekly student over-18 Oyster photocard and lost my photocard during my regular journey from Liverpool Street Station to Walthamstow Central on the overland network last month. I only realized I didn't have my photocard on me when I went to go through the barriers. I looked for it on the platform in case I had dropped it (no luck) and then went to one of the inspectors on the platform (our station is a hotspot for fare evaders) and told him the situation and also giving him my driving licence as I assumed he would need my details to give me a penalty fare and send me on my way. This happened once before, in January, and I paid an on the spot fine which later was refunded as I could prove I did have a valid ticket for the journey through my Oystercard journey history.

However he reported me for fare evasion instead (didn't even offer me a chance to pay a penalty fare) and I am waiting to hear back whether TfL will prosecute me for fare evasion. They sent me the 'Intention to prosecute' letter which I responded to by stating I did not evade my fare and also sent proof of (a) the purchase of the valid weekly pass on my bank statement and (b) my journey history which shows I touched in Liverpool Street Station on that day but never touched out. I called them today to ask what the progress was (it's been a week since I responded) and they said they were 'still investigating'.

Investigating what? They have all the proof that I had a valid ticket. The oystecard journey history was requested from TfL so it's not like I faked it. I ALWAYS buy a ticket to travel. If I had used someone else's pass or had tried to get a free trip I would accept it but it's not the case.

I feel this is incredibly unfair and can't believe I am facing a criminal conviction for losing my pass during the journey. On top of this, I am studying law and trying to change career but I am faced with the prospect of being unable to practice because of a conviction while being 000's of £ in debt from a uni degree I can never use.

Any similar experiences? Would love to know how they turned out.

Also, once the inspector had taken my details and made a phone call (I don't know who to) he then said he had to ask me some questions which we had already covered. I said 'ok' and he asked me if I had a valid ticket. I said no, because I lost it. He then asked me if I was aware it is an offence to travel without a valid ticket on the network. I said yes. I feel he asked me these questions because they might be relied upon in a prosecution but he never cautioned me. Can I argue that this makes my answer to those questions inadmissible in court?

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najaB · 2 May 2018

captain pants said:
I feel this is incredibly unfair and can't believe I am facing a criminal conviction for losing my pass during the journey.

You're facing a potential prosecution because you weren't able to present a valid ticket/photocard when requested. This is, in itself, an offence. However, if your story checks out then most likely you won't face court.

captain pants said:
Can I argue that this makes my answer to those questions inadmissible in court?

No.

ForTheLoveOf · 2 May 2018

captain pants said:
Wondering if anyone had some tips/experience for my problem.

I travel on a weekly student over-18 Oyster photocard and lost my photocard during my regular journey from Liverpool Street Station to Walthamstow Central on the overland network last month. I only realized I didn't have my photocard on me when I went to go through the barriers. I looked for it on the platform in case I had dropped it (no luck) and then went to one of the inspectors on the platform (our station is a hotspot for fare evaders) and told him the situation and also giving him my driving licence as I assumed he would need my details to give me a penalty fare and send me on my way. This happened once before, in January, and I paid an on the spot fine which later was refunded as I could prove I did have a valid ticket for the journey through my Oystercard journey history.

However he reported me for fare evasion instead (didn't even offer me a chance to pay a penalty fare) and I am waiting to hear back whether TfL will prosecute me for fare evasion. They sent me the 'Intention to prosecute' letter which I responded to by stating I did not evade my fare and also sent proof of (a) the purchase of the valid weekly pass on my bank statement and (b) my journey history which shows I touched in Liverpool Street Station on that day but never touched out. I called them today to ask what the progress was (it's been a week since I responded) and they said they were 'still investigating'.

Investigating what? They have all the proof that I had a valid ticket. The oystecard journey history was requested from TfL so it's not like I faked it. I ALWAYS buy a ticket to travel. If I had used someone else's pass or had tried to get a free trip I would accept it but it's not the case.

I feel this is incredibly unfair and can't believe I am facing a criminal conviction for losing my pass during the journey. On top of this, I am studying law and trying to change career but I am faced with the prospect of being unable to practice because of a conviction while being 000's of £ in debt from a uni degree I can never use.

Any similar experiences? Would love to know how they turned out.

Also, once the inspector had taken my details and made a phone call (I don't know who to) he then said he had to ask me some questions which we had already covered. I said 'ok' and he asked me if I had a valid ticket. I said no, because I lost it. He then asked me if I was aware it is an offence to travel without a valid ticket on the network. I said yes. I feel he asked me these questions because they might be relied upon in a prosecution but he never cautioned me. Can I argue that this makes my answer to those questions inadmissible in court?

The fact that you provably already had paid for a valid ticket for your journey means that it would be difficult for them to show intent to avoid payment of the fare. Likewise, the fact that it is on an Oyster card and that it can hence be proven that no-one else used your ticket or Oyster card to tap out means that it would be difficult for them to claim you 'accidentally' lost your photo card to help someone else fare evade (as might be the case for a lost paper season ticket).

Nevertheless, failing to show a valid ticket when asked is a separate criminal offence and so, although I agree that it is not entirely fair, you are 'bang to rights' with that aspect.

All is not lost - TfL may decide not to prosecute and instead to either drop the matter or to offer to settle for either a certain amount or ask you for a suggestion of how much you want to settle for. This is not what they usually do though, they usually either prosecute or don't. Any prosecution would likely be for the lesser (Byelaw) offence of failing to show a ticket upon demand. The penalty for this upon conviction is a fine of approximately 1-2× your relevant weekly income, with a maximum of £1000 (usually ending up as a low to mid three figure sum), plus TfL's costs (usually in the region of £80-£100) and the victim surcharge.

A conviction under the Byelaws would not usually generate a record on the Police National Computer and it would be immediately 'spent' under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act, so it would not need to be declared for most purposes. Where it did need to be declared then it would in most cases not be considered an offence of dishonesty (especially given your circumstances), and as a result it is unlikely it would bar you entirely from working in the legal profession.

Even if you do not manage to become whatever it is you want to become, your degree is not worthless. It's unconscionably expensive but it nevertheless has value in that it pre-qualifies you for many jobs for which non-graduates simply won't be considered.

Clip · 2 May 2018

I hink why they'e still investigating as you put it is because of your issue in January as 2 ticket 'losses' in 4 months is pretty high and they may want to investigate something deeper.

It's worth noting that I cant recall a case on here with tfl taking an out of court settlement before but you never know

It is best to try not to stress about this too much until their next letter comes through and then see what it says and come back here for further advice.

island · 2 May 2018

najaB said:
You're facing a potential prosecution because you weren't able to present a valid ticket/photocard when requested. This is, in itself, an offence. However, if your story checks out then most likely you won't face court.
No.

Did the inspector actually request the production of a ticket though?

najaB · 2 May 2018

island said:
Did the inspector actually request the production of a ticket though?

That is, perhaps, a matter of semantics.

transmanche · 2 May 2018

It's probably worth clarifying (for those unfamiliar with 18+ Student Oyster cards) that the photo is actually printed on the Oyster card - it's not a separate photocard to be produced alongside the Oyster card.

So 'being unable to produce a photocard' actually means 'being unable to produce a valid ticket'.

Sample 18+ Student Oyster card from tfl.gov.uk

30907 · 2 May 2018

transmanche said:
It's probably worth clarifying (for those unfamiliar with 18+ Student Oyster cards) that the photo is actually printed on the Oyster card - it's not a separate photocard to be produced alongside the Oyster card.

So 'being unable to produce a photocard' actually means 'being unable to produce a valid ticket'.

Sample 18+ Student Oyster card from tfl.gov.uk

Thanks for the useful information, I had assumed that a photocard was something different from Oyster, and that the OP had simply claimed a discount they couldn't prove entitlement to.

BTW, is the legal profession massively expanding at the moment? I only ask because so many trainee lawyers seem to have ticketing issues.

Back to the OP: maybe the issue is that s/he is a repeat offender?

njr001 · 2 May 2018

Did the OP report the lost of his card to the Oyster helpline on the day he lost it?
Presumably !8+ cards have to be registered and if not already done so it would be worth downloading his oyster journey history.

cuccir · 2 May 2018

I'm sure the fact that something happened so recently may be making them look more closely at this.

Frankly though, the delay might also be because TfL haven't got round to it yet. A week is not very long - a person on annual leave and someone else sick and suddenly a small team could easily fall two or three weeks behind. So I would not yet be too perturbed by 'still investigating'.

DaveNewcastle · 2 May 2018

captain pants said:
. . . it happened once before. .

We know what you are saying, but an investigator will not consider it as something that happened, but as something you did. Small but inportant distinctiion in law.

captain pants said:
. . . I called them today to ask what the progress was (it's been a week since I responded) and they said they were 'still investigating'..

A normal rate of progress - nothing can be deduced from this.

captain pants said:
. . . . he never cautioned me. Can I argue that this makes my answer to those questions inadmissible in court?

No.

ForTheLoveOf said:
. . . the fact that it is on an Oyster card and that it can hence be proven that no-one else used your ticket or Oyster card to tap out means that it would be difficult for them to claim you 'accidentally' lost your photo card to help someone . .

That is uninformed speculation and technically, that circumstance could not arise.

ForTheLoveOf said:
TfL may decide not to prosecute and instead to either drop the matter or to offer to settle for either a certain amount or ask you for a suggestion of how much you want to settle for. This is not what they usually do though, . . .

They may. But for a one-off incident as you describe it here, with no other factors : never. Please don't expect this outcome.

captain pants · 4 May 2018

Thanks for the replies. I reported my photocard (yes it's an Oystercard!) lost the minute I got home and TfL sent me the journey history which proves my account.
The inspector asked me for a valid ticket at the end of the whole thing - after I had told him what happened and gave him my details, he made a phone call and was on the phone for a while. He then turned to me and said 'I need to ask you some questions just as a matter of form so you will need to repeat some things you have already told me'. I said ok. He then asked 'Do you have a valid ticket for this journey' and I replied that I didn't because, as I had already told him, I lost it during the journey. He then asked 'do you know it is an offence to travel on any part of the rail network without a valid ticket' and I replied 'yes'.

Looking back I feel he did this in order to justify reporting me for fare evasion. I feel tricked in to admitting I didn't have a valid ticket. Technically, at that moment, I admitted to not having a valid ticket but only because I was very stressed and confused as to why he was taking so long and not telling me what was going to happen. I kept asking him if I was going to get a fine and he just said 'You will get a letter and the letter will explain everything'.

captain pants · 4 May 2018

I don't feel that two ticket losses in 4 months marks me as a habitual offender. Habitually absent-minded, sure.

ForTheLoveOf · 4 May 2018

captain pants said:
I don't feel that two ticket losses in 4 months marks me as a habitual offender. Habitually absent-minded, sure.

As much as this may be the case, failing to present a valid ticket on demand is, with some defences, an absolute offence under the Railway Byelaws. Since none of the defences apply from what you've said, TfL can prosecute the offence regardless of if it is fair for them to do so, and if they do, the Magistrate(s) will probably find you guilty regardless of if it is all fair.

You simply have to hope that they don't prosecute you because it was evidently a mistake, or that they offer to settle out of Court. But they rarely do the latter, so you are reliant on the former.

captain pants · 4 May 2018

Oh, and one thing I forgot to mention which I found REALLY weird....when the inspector was writing up my details he then looked at me and asked me how tall I was. I asked him why he needed that information and he said he needed to know my height. I refused to tell him (I was REALLY upset by this time because he wasn't giving me any information on what was going to happen) and said that I was standing in front of him so he could see what I looked like if he needed a physical description. I had already given him my driving licence by then so why the hell he needed further id I have no idea.
I made a complaint about his question to TfL and received an email apologizing for his behavior and admitting he should not have asked me that question. Is that something I can use in my defence as well?

Their email is below (they confused the station as it was Walthamstow, not Liverpool St)
***********************************************************

Thank you for your email of 20 April 2018 about a staff complaint at Liverpool Street station on 19 April. I'm sorry to learn about the events that unfolded that evening.

I do apologise for any ill feeling generated as a result.

Our staff are trained and expected to provide professional and helpful advice, without the need to take irrelevant details / intrusive questions. In that scenario he should have referred you to the Oyster helpline immediately or ring the team so you could speak to them directly.

As such I've passed this incident on to the Area Manager who is responsible for the London Overground staff at Liverpool Street station. He'll wish to address any staff failings and ensure that our customer care standards are being maintained at all times.

I trust that your future dealings with staff are positive and pleasant.

Thanks again for contacting us. If there is anything else we can help you with, please reply to this email. Alternatively, you can call us on 0343 222 1234 and we'll be happy to help you.

cuccir · 4 May 2018

captain pants said:
Is that something I can use in my defence as well?

It depends what you're defending yourself against! The more serious forms of prosecution are off the table I think, so IF this proceeds to prosecution it would be for the Byelaw offence, which is a strict liability offence: to quote DaveNewcastle's post in our Legal FAQ section:

grounds for a defence are extremely limited to any technicalities or circumstances which persuade Magistrates to abandon the Claim or to offer a Discharge to the Accused

I don't think the actions of the ticket inspector would fall under this as it occurred after you'd lost you were first unable to show your ticket, ie, after the original offence was committed.

captain pants said:
I don't feel that two ticket losses in 4 months marks me as a habitual offender. Habitually absent-minded, sure.

Certainly, but I'm sure you can see why two losses would mean that a case is given more time for investigation rather than just waved through quickly as a first loss might be. To reiterate what's been said: not showing a ticket is a potential Byelaw offence, regardless of the reason. The fact that TfL sometimes don't prosecute when they're happy that it's an innocent mistake doesn't change that and doesn't mean that they won't ever prosecute.

I think you just have to wait this one out and see what their next reply is; all else is speculation as we don't know what TfL will do next.

captain pants · 4 May 2018

Thanks cuccir. It's the suspense that's the worst part! I am hoping they will apply some discretionary leeway to my charge. I will update once I have a response.

najaB · 4 May 2018

captain pants said:
Is that something I can use in my defence as well?

Nope, not really. As @cuccir points out a Byelaw offence is strict liability - you either did it or you didn't. Anything else is, in almost all cases, irrelevant.

captain pants · 13 May 2018

Hi everyone, thanks for all your advice on this thread. I received a letter yesterday from the Compliance Unit to tell me that they had reviewed my case and decided that I did have a valid Oyster card for the journey so no further action is being taken. It's a HUGE relief and now I can just concentrate on my uni exams.

I really appreciate everyone's responses so far - it's been so helpful to be advised on the law around this area so that I had some idea of the possible outcomes. Thanks all.

cuccir · 13 May 2018

captain pants said:
Hi everyone, thanks for all your advice on this thread. I received a letter yesterday from the Compliance Unit to tell me that they had reviewed my case and decided that I did have a valid Oyster card for the journey so no further action is being taken. It's a HUGE relief and now I can just concentrate on my uni exams.

I really appreciate everyone's responses so far - it's been so helpful to be advised on the law around this area so that I had some idea of the possible outcomes. Thanks all.

Thanks for updating us. It's useful when offering future advice to others.

Unfair fare evasion prosecution

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