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Channel 5 Documentary: Intercity 125

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Spartacus

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'Celebrity champions' according to the blurb on Sky, with Sir Kenneth Grange too.
 

VEP3417

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seeing as my thread was turned off, i searched before posting the same topic but nothing came up

but anyway looking forwards to the program
 

Mikey C

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There was a very good documentary a few years ago on BBC4 covering the IC125, Inter City and the use of Jimmy Savile in promoting the railways (this is the age of the train)

It was done before the truth about Savile emerged, which explains why it has never been shown again...
 

Mikey C

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seeing as my thread was turned off, i searched before posting the same topic but nothing came up

but anyway looking forwards to the program

I tend to miss things posted in this sub forum; for anything urgent, like a TV programme that evening, posting a reminder in the main UK forum is more useful!
 

GusB

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There was a very good documentary a few years ago on BBC4 covering the IC125, Inter City and the use of Jimmy Savile in promoting the railways (this is the age of the train)

It was done before the truth about Savile emerged, which explains why it has never been shown again...
I'm sure it was on YouTube for a while, but it has probably been taken down for copyright reasons. No doubt it will crop up again at some point in the future.
 

SimonC

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Enjoyed episide 1 but it flipped around a bit

Noticed Peter Mugridge in the credits... any link to the Peter from this parish?
 

CC 72100

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Enjoyed episide 1 but it flipped around a bit

Noticed Peter Mugridge in the credits... any link to the Peter from this parish?

Wondered who else had noticed that- got to be, surely?
 

Mikey C

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A decent watch. C5 show some good documentaries, but they do tend to hype up an issue before the commercial break, as if people watching would only stay on to find out how (in this case) the windscreen issue was resolved!
 

Peter Mugridge

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Noticed Peter Mugridge in the credits... any link to the Peter from this parish?

I wondered if anyone would notice that... 8-)

Yes... guilty as charged; I did contribute a bit... answered a few of their questions and sent them a few photos to use as background for voiceover parts. No idea if any will atually be used or not - will have to wait until next week to find out...
 

theironroad

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A decent watch. C5 show some good documentaries, but they do tend to hype up an issue before the commercial break, as if people watching would only stay on to find out how (in this case) the windscreen issue was resolved!

Lol, maybe they thought it was a remake of murder on the Orient Express....
 

theironroad

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It seems that little has been learnt over the years about involving a range of drivers in cab design at an early stage . Maybe the current issues with the Scotrail 385 windscreens wouldn't have arisen if a prototype had been fully tested in all conditions. At least with the hst cab/windscreen , it was caught at a relatively early stage so it could be redesigned.

Interesting programme.
 

edwin_m

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I agreed, it did jump around. It also assumed a bit of knowledge
As someone who claims a bit of knowledge I do think they made a mess of the timeline. When APT was first throught of in the late 60s only the Japanese had high speed rail, but there was a definite implication on the programme that the French were well ahead of us as well. They weren't at that time, the prototype TGV (also gas turbine powered) came out about the same time as APT-E. Due to the need to build new tracks for it, the first full TGV passenger service to Lyon didn't start until the early 80s by which time the HST had been in regular service for around five years.
 

VEP3417

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i thought it was quite good, every time theres Any program featuring br they seem to get pru leith on to talk about cheese sandwiches :lol:
 

king_walnut

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Couple of questions,

It said on the programme that the 125's needed two train drivers. What was the role of the second driver and when was it reduced to just the one driver?

Also it said that due to the curvy nature of the line, trains needed to tilt so they didn't fly off the track. How did the 125 deal with this, as they don't tilt?
 

theironroad

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Couple of questions,

It said on the programme that the 125's needed two train drivers. What was the role of the second driver and when was it reduced to just the one driver?

Also it said that due to the curvy nature of the line, trains needed to tilt so they didn't fly off the track. How did the 125 deal with this, as they don't tilt?

The unions wanted any train that ran above 100mph to have 2 full drivers in the cab as a back up safety measure in terms of signal sighting. Not sure when it stopped, but certainly not the case today.

Well the 125s could not travel at 125 on curvy track as not fitted with tilt. In the program, Chris green mentioned how the wcml is one long S bending track, which is why it wasn't until titling pendolinos were introduced could the journey time between London and Glasgow be speeded up.
 

theironroad

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Googling double manned trains brings up a rail forum thread discussing when the second driver stopped.
 

43096

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It also assumed a bit of knowledge
That’s a good thing, surely? There’s too many programmes that just assume no prior knowledge, which for people who do have some knowledge makes the programmes less interesting/more boring etc. Pitching it at the right level is a difficult thing to do, though.
 

Wyvern

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Verdict: A Curate's Egg. Short on historical and technical accuracy

It all actually started when they wanted to run cement trains faster and the Presflo wagons kept derailing. HSFV1 was the forerunner of the HST and the APT and every new train since:

upload_2018-5-16_11-2-51.jpeg
 

JohnElliott

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I thought they rather played up the novelty of having a power car at each end -- it had already been done on the Midland Pullman and the Hastings DEMUs.
 

bastien

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There was a very good documentary a few years ago on BBC4 covering the IC125, Inter City and the use of Jimmy Savile in promoting the railways (this is the age of the train)

It was done before the truth about Savile emerged, which explains why it has never been shown again...
Even so, some of the contributors made 'that face' when he was mentioned.
 

AM9

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Some interesting footage in it (some irrelevant to the narrative) but the same old fake jeopardy storyline which just happened to coincide with the ad breaks.
I'd like to say 'why don't the broadcasters speak to those in the know about the whole flow of the HSDT programme (including Cristian Wolmar)' but then I remember the cringeworthy result of the Dan Snow/Dick Strawbridge 'Trainspotting Live' effort which probably put rail content in general programming back decades.
 

Wyvern

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I thought they rather played up the novelty of having a power car at each end -- it had already been done on the Midland Pullman and the Hastings DEMUs.
And of course the APT which was going on at the same time.
 

nat67

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On the programme they put a stupid horn sound covering the true HST horn. I noticed some of the guys form 125 group when I visited the GCR (N) a few weeks ago.
 

duffield

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Despite some occasional inaccuracies overall I was quite impressed, particularly that it wasn't generally too dumbed-down. I found it quite engrossing, and particularly enjoyed some of the vintage footage and the contemporary shots of 41001, which I had a ride behind earlier this year.

I guess it may be possible to give 41001 a bit more of a proper run when the the GCR and GCRN link up - it may be able to run on the 'high speed' section of the GCR (50/60mph?) although not while carrying passengers.
 

70014IronDuke

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Couple of questions,
...
Also it said that due to the curvy nature of the line, trains needed to tilt so they didn't fly off the track. How did the 125 deal with this, as they don't tilt?

If it said that, I believe it is incorrect. The primary reason for speed restrictions - and tilt - on curves is passenger comfort.

Since it doesn't have tilt, HST 'deals with this' by observing speed restrictions - although HST restictions are a bit less onerous than most loco-hauled stock, AIUI. (Altough, TBH, this seems illogical if passenger comfort - ie limiting sideways g-force - is the primary reason for speed restrictions!)
 

43096

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If it said that, I believe it is incorrect. The primary reason for speed restrictions - and tilt - on curves is passenger comfort.
That is correct, though of course if the speed is high enough, ultimately it will result in derailment; of which there have been plenty of examples over time:
- Salisbury, 1906: http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=73
- Sutton Coldfield, 1955: http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=110
- Eltham Well Hall, 1972: http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=134

Not just in the UK, either, of course, for example: https://europeantraction.com/2017/05/27/103106-and-the-rheinweiler-derailment-21st-july-1971/
 
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