Channel 5 Documentary: Intercity 125

43096 · 18 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
I think the 76 seat layout was the best mixture of capacity and comfort. I agree, the GWR ones are a shambles.

The EMT fleet still has the 76 seat layout, though with one pair of airline seats replaced by a luggage stack, giving 74 seats.

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hexagon789 · 18 May 2018

43096 said:
The EMT fleet still has the 76 seat layout, though with one pair of airline seats replaced by a luggage stack, giving 74 seats.

Indeed, and the original seats as well, no?

Not sure if the layout is the same as the original refurbished one, but I believe VTEC's TSs seat 76?

43096 · 18 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
Indeed, and the original seats as well, no?

Yes, still got IC70s. Because, as the then MD put it, “why would we change comfortable seats for something new that is less comfortable?”

Not sure if the layout is the same as the original refurbished one, but I believe VTEC's TSs seat 76?

Correct about seat numbers. The layout is slightly different with fewer tables.

hexagon789 · 18 May 2018

43096 said:
Yes, still got IC70s. Because, as the then MD put it, “why would we change comfortable seats for something new that is less comfortable?”

Quite sensible really.

43096 said:
Correct about seat numbers. The layout is slightly different with fewer tables.

Is that more higgledy-piggledy as it were than the original 76 seat layout? (Might be were I got that idea from if it is.)

yorksrob · 19 May 2018

43096 said:
Yes, still got IC70s. Because, as the then MD put it, “why would we change comfortable seats for something new that is less comfortable?”

Give that man a knighthood.

43096 · 19 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
Is that more higgledy-piggledy as it were than the original 76 seat layout? (Might be were I got that idea from if it is.)

Yes, it is.

VTEC HST layout is shown here: https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...82199b8843b2f7c572a/vtec84-hst-2017-dl-v4.pdf

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

43096 said:
Yes, it is.

VTEC HST layout is shown here: https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.c...82199b8843b2f7c572a/vtec84-hst-2017-dl-v4.pdf

I knew I had got the higgledy-piggledy idea from somewhere! :lol:

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

yorksrob said:
Give that man a knighthood.

Quite, though some people might disagree

cactustwirly · 19 May 2018

43096 said:
The 76 seat arrangement wasn’t higgledy-piggledy as you put it: each half of the coach was a mirror image of the opposite half. One side in each half was not dissimilar to the original layout with 4 bays of 4 and an airline pair. The other side was one bay of four and 8 rows of airline seats. This was the only way to squeeze in an extra 4 seats per vehicle whilst still maintaining leg room. In terms of a compromise layout - and it did offer more airline seats, which some prefer (I do if on my own) - it was about as good as you get.

As for the current GWR layout, it is a disgrace. Mutilated power cars and mutilated coaches means it is a very poor shadow of what the HST was at its best.

But the GWR ones can seat much more than 76, and it is much more preferable on a busy train to the West Country, for example.
A slightly crap seat is much better than no seat at all...

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

cactustwirly said:
But the GWR ones can seat much more than 76, and it is much more preferable on a busy train to the West Country, for example.
A slightly crap seat is much better than no seat at all...

I think the TSs seat 80 on the non-high density sets. I'll concede that any seat is better than no seat, but I think an extra TS in the sets would've been preferable.

cactustwirly · 19 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
I think the TSs seat 80 on the non-high density sets. I'll concede that any seat is better than no seat, but I think an extra TS in the sets would've been preferable.

Which is approximately an extra 20 seats per train, which is obviously less than an extra carriage, but still not an insignificant amount.

According to this post, the HD sets at what was then FGW (when the HSTs had 2.5 carriages of first class) had an extra 100 seats compared to the EMT sets.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/hst-trainset-capacities.73196/#post-1233924

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

cactustwirly said:
Which is approximately an extra 20 seats per train, which is obviously less than an extra carriage, but still not an insignificant amount.

True, but an extra TS to the standard layout would've given an extra 76 at no compromise in legroom.

cactustwirly · 19 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
True, but an extra TS to the standard layout would've given an extra 76 at no compromise in legroom.

Actually I find the GWR sets have better legroom (at the airline seats) than the EMT sets.

43096 · 19 May 2018

cactustwirly said:
But the GWR ones can seat much more than 76, and it is much more preferable on a busy train to the West Country, for example.
A slightly crap seat is much better than no seat at all...

Can we not go down the whole seat thing AGAIN. It’s been done to death.

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

cactustwirly said:
Actually I find the GWR sets have better legroom (at the airline seats) than the EMT sets.

Definitely worse than VTEC sets. I think I'll leave at that though!

cactustwirly · 19 May 2018

43096 said:
Can we not go down the whole seat thing AGAIN. It’s been done to death.

You were the one that started it by saying the original 76 layout was the best, which IMO on a 21st century railway, it clearly isn't.

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

cactustwirly said:
You were the one that started it by saying the original 76 layout was the best, which IMO on a 21st century railway, it clearly isn't.

Oh dear. Shots fired

(Runs for cover)

43096 · 19 May 2018

cactustwirly said:
You were the one that started it by saying the original 76 layout was the best, which IMO on a 21st century railway, it clearly isn't.

No you started it, you invaded Poland....

Peter Mugridge · 19 May 2018

Are you all aware that part 2 this week has been re-scheduled to 20.00....?

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

Peter Mugridge said:
Are you all aware that part 2 this week has been re-scheduled to 20.00....?

Yes, presumably it clashes with something. Thank goodness for series links or I might not have noticed!

Peter Mugridge · 19 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
Yes, presumably it clashes with something. Thank goodness for series links or I might not have noticed!

Well, there's always the plus one on channel 44 if anyone does get caught out...

hexagon789 · 19 May 2018

Peter Mugridge said:
Well, there's always the plus one on channel 44 if anyone does get caught out...

True, though to be honest I probably won't be watching it 'live' anyway. There's always Demand 5 to catch-up with as well.

Peter Mugridge · 20 May 2018

hexagon789 said:
Yes, presumably it clashes with something.

Channel 4 have scheduled something called "Trains from Hell" at 21.00 the same night.

( As that is Channel 4, I strongly suspect it has nothing to do with trains departing from a certain suburb of Trondheim... )

hexagon789 · 20 May 2018

Peter Mugridge said:
Channel 4 have scheduled something called "Trains from Hell" at 21.00 the same night.

( As that is Channel 4, I strongly suspect it has nothing to do with trains departing from a certain suburb of Trondheim... )

Sadly not, it seems to be about all the things which can go wrong on railways - derailments, disasters, delays, commuter rate etc.

I think I'll give it a pass

Mikey C · 20 May 2018

Peter Mugridge said:
Channel 4 have scheduled something called "Trains from Hell" at 21.00 the same night.

Is that about Govia Thameslink

hexagon789 · 20 May 2018

Mikey C said:
Is that about Govia Thameslink

Probably...

plymothian · 22 May 2018

Well there you go, "this is the age..." and cut off before Savile's "..of the train."

ETA. That was unexpected, put up there full frontal so to speak!

johnnychips · 22 May 2018

Trains from Hell looks like being a You've Been Framed type programme. Glad Channel 5 do a +1 option, as just turned TV on expecting part 2!

martin2345uk · 22 May 2018

plymothian said:
Well there you go, "this is the age..." and cut off before Savile's "..of the train."

ETA. That was unexpected, put up there full frontal so to speak!

Heh, yes I thought they were going to completely avoid mentioning Saville until they did!

Mag_seven · 22 May 2018

Bit disappointing the second episode. I thought there was too much on the APT and it was also implied that as a result of the APT project failure HST's then operated on the WCML (yes I know a small fleet operated Holyhead services but that was only latterly). Also no mention of the fact that the HST's have a future with Scotrail/Cross Country and GWR ("Castle class").

Channel 5 Documentary: Intercity 125

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