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Crossrail construction

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matt_world2004

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Just had a look back at the other threads and I thought the 6 + 6 was peak only.
I reckon it should be 6 tph Heathrow all day, but in the off peak 2 tph Reading and 2tph Maidenhead, with an extra 2 tph Reading in peaks only.

But I agree the 10 tph total shown for stage 5 on page 8 in the TfL report looks wrong.
I am sure that when the terminal 5 services was announced the service pattern was 4tph maidenhead (terminating). 2tph Reading (Terminating) 6tph Heathrow branch. The timetable the hosrdings at hayes appear to suggest this too.The advertising at hayes and harlington which shows the service pattern before the terminal 5 service was introduced seems to reinforce this showing a peak train to west drayton every 10 minutes or 6tph
 
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Ronnie268

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I'm also confused as to the Shenfield - Liverpool Street service pattern. At some point, platforms 15-17 at Liverpool St have to be rebuilt to 200m length (and platform 18 decomissioned). As far as I can see, the 4tph Liverpool St service begins the moment Shenfield is connected to the core. Are they intending to use only one of those platforms while they rebuild the others, or is this still firmly in the 'undecided' category?
 

swt_passenger

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I am sure that when the terminal 5 services was announced the service pattern was 4tph maidenhead (terminating). 2tph Reading (Terminating) 6tph Heathrow branch. The timetable the hosrdings at hayes appear to suggest this too.The advertising at hayes and harlington which shows the service pattern before the terminal 5 service was introduced seems to reinforce this showing a peak train to west drayton every 10 minutes or 6tph
I guess it’ll all come out eventually. Problem is we’ve had a new thread about this every few months over the last year or so, and they’ve never reached a firm conclusion. Meanwhile this is clogging up the infrastructure forum...

This table on the Crossrail website dated Jul 17 shows the Reading and Maidenhead service pattern I mentioned above: http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab65625...service_pattern-reading_to_central_london.pdf
 
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AM9

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I guess it’ll all come out eventually. Problem is we’ve had a new thread about this every few months over the last year or so, and they’ve never reached a firm conclusion. Meanwhile this is clogging up the infrastructure forum...

This table on the Crossrail website dated Jul 17 shows the Reading and Maidenhead service pattern I mentioned above: http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab65625...service_pattern-reading_to_central_london.pdf

Hardly 'clogging up' the Infrstructure forum, - it's one thread sitting at ninth position out of 22 threads on the first page.
 

plcd1

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Just had a look back at the other threads and I thought the 6 + 6 was peak only.
I reckon it should be 6 tph Heathrow all day, but in the off peak 2 tph Reading and 2tph Maidenhead, with an extra 2 tph Reading in peaks only.

But I agree the 10 tph total shown for stage 5 on page 8 in the TfL report looks wrong.

TfL keep stressing in these transition reports that the 2019 timetable is not yet fully settled. Therefore maps that show frequencies - especially for Western services - should probably be treated with an element of caution. I've not yet seen a definitive statement that reconciles the press releases from months ago where the "Heathrow issue" was apparently resolved and the DfT were happy for TfL to take on some extra GWR services as far as Reading. The latest report does say that the application to Network Rail for trains paths for the 2019 timetable should be agreed in early 2018. Oddly there is nothing on the ORR website.
 

swt_passenger

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Hardly 'clogging up' the Infrstructure forum, - it's one thread sitting at ninth position out of 22 threads on the first page.
Sorry, I meant we were discussing timetabling in the wrong forum. It’s how we end up with parallel discussions about similar topics.
 

plcd1

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I am sure that when the terminal 5 services was announced the service pattern was 4tph maidenhead (terminating). 2tph Reading (Terminating) 6tph Heathrow branch. The timetable the hosrdings at hayes appear to suggest this too.The advertising at hayes and harlington which shows the service pattern before the terminal 5 service was introduced seems to reinforce this showing a peak train to west drayton every 10 minutes or 6tph

I found a youtube clip from London (Geofftech) which includes a short interview with Howard Smith, Crossrail Ops Director at 2mins 40 seconds in.


He confirms the post Dec 2019 train frequencies as

12 tph to each eastern branch
4 tph to Reading
2 tph to Maidenhead
4 tph to T4
2 tph to T5
That leaves 12 tph to turn at Paddington.

Stopping patterns to the west are still under development.
 

ijmad

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12 tph to each eastern branch
4 tph to Reading
2 tph to Maidenhead
4 tph to T4
2 tph to T5
That leaves 12 tph to turn at Paddington.

Here is the most recent announcement which confirms aspects of this too.

Additionally, the off-peak frequency has been confirmed as 20tph through the core. Easy to guess that'll mean 10tph on each of the eastern sections. On the Western sections that could mean two fewer trains turning at Paddington, and two fewer going to Reading (so 2tph), but we'll see about that. I don't think TfL are as wedded to their 4tph minimum for metro services as they perhaps once were, but it would be really great to see 4tph all day to Reading, although I'm not familiar enough with the area to know if that would be justified.

Operationally, London Reconnections (and I) think it's extremely likely the service pattern will see all trains from Shenfield turned at Paddington, and Abbey Wood services making up the trains that go out West. This creates some separation between the two shared National Rail sections if things on either go awry. It also satisfies Canary Wharf Group who paid £150m for their direct link to Heathrow.

Not all the hoardings or even the Crossrail website's station pages have been updated with the increased Western branch frequency, but I'd take Howard Smith as the word of God!
 

plcd1

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Interesting summary of the discussion on Crossrail issues at the recent TfL Board.

https://rosslydall.wordpress.com/20...n-and-as-new-trains-suffer-software-problems/

Partial quote below.
Crossrail chiefs have issued a major alert that the £14.8bn line may not open on time and is at risk of blowing its budget.

See the video of the TfL board meeting above. Discussion of Crossrail begins at 2 hours 35 minutes: https://www.london.gov.uk/transport-london-board-2018-01-30

Problems with software on new trains and an electrical explosion in east London, which occurred when engineers tried to switch on the high-voltage power, have caused “real, serious challenges”, Mayor Sadiq Khan was told.

Some headlines from the Board discussion.

In essence construction is running late at places like Whitechapel and Bond St. At long last someone has confirmed my very long held suspicion that Whitechapel's construction and fit out is way behind where it should be.

The East End power connection at Pudding Mill Lane exploded when they switched it on. This has caused a 3 month delay. The electrical equipment was apparently designed incorrectly. This has delayed the start of train testing. They were planning to switch the power on the day of the Board meeting (yesterday) but whether it has happened was still slightly in doubt. A similar installation for the Western power connection is yet to be switched on and has been subject to extensive review to avoid a repeat. Although the guilty supplier was not mentioned the words used by Terry Morgan (who I know of old) suggested he has beyond furious as to what had happened and that a "robust discussion" had been held with the supplier.

Software immaturity / unreliability with the class 345s is causing problems with integrated the multiple signalling system interfaces.

Back up plan in place to use class 360s into Heathrow from May as class 345's ECTS interface is unlikely to be reliable enough although it does work functionally. Apparently a train has run into Heathrow on 12 and 19 January.

The CBTC equipped train is being tested at Old Dalby and is due in London on 16 Feb. It is then expected to run under its own power into the Eastern tunnel section (Abbey Wood - Canary Wharf section) by the end of Feb.

Seems the entire programme is now becoming compressed and is having to be managed day to day because some physical works have to be curtailed if train testing is happening. There are also cost pressures emerging - not a surprise because "chuck money at the problem" is often the answer at this late stage of things.

Mark Wild (LU MD) and Terry Morgan (Crossrail Chairman) both said there will be an operational railway open in Dec 2018. I do wonder just how "finished" it will be in some places. So lots of "fun" for the Crossrail and TfL teams as the days tick by to December 2018.;)
 

gwr4090

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The East End power connection at Pudding Mill Lane exploded when they switched it on. This has caused a 3 month delay. The electrical equipment was apparently designed incorrectly. This has delayed the start of train testing. They were planning to switch the power on the day of the Board meeting (yesterday) but whether it has happened was still slightly in doubt. A similar installation for the Western power connection is yet to be switched on and has been subject to extensive review to avoid a repeat. Although the guilty supplier was not mentioned the words used by Terry Morgan (who I know of old) suggested he has beyond furious as to what had happened and that a "robust discussion" had been held with the supplier.

Yesterday's attempt to power up the Line (the third) was also a failure apparently.
 

rstmart

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Was an article on this in tonight’s Evening Standard, it reported that

“Mr Khan curtailed discussion of the problems during the public section of the TFL board and ordered that they be held in private “

I would love to know what was said in that closed session! Any ‘insiders’ or others in the know ?
 

ScotGG

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If Whitechapel is late could they run a Canary Wharf to Abbey Wood shuttle?
 

plcd1

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If Whitechapel is late could they run a Canary Wharf to Abbey Wood shuttle?

Don't need to do that. The stated line from Terry Morgan is that the central section will open in December 2018. I suspect far too many people have very large performance bonuses linked to that milestone for it not to happen never mind the immense reputational damage to the Mayor, TfL, the Crossrail project and the enormous stick it would hand Mr Grayling to not trust TfL to deliver anything in future even though the DfT are joint sponsors of Crossrail! Such is politics and business.

I expect there will be a mad, mad dash to get things to an operable state even if it is not 100% finished in terms of cosmetic finishes etc. I can't imagine the Queen will be dropping off at Whitechapel to cut any ribbons so if it's not 100% done come December no one will be that bothered. After all Abbey Wood station opened in an incomplete state in terms of lifts, external finishes etc. Provided people can get to / from the trains that will be the main issue although a lack of accessibility, like lifts, would be likely to cause a political furore. Neither TfL nor Network Rail have the best of records of getting lifts into service and keeping them going.

It is worth bearing in mind that there is still another year of work after December 2018 to get the later phases in and they are reliant on complex signalling transitions working reliably and the trains being in a reliable state. Crossrail are "on the hook" for that along with Network Rail in terms of the rebuilt stations and accessibility work on the GW route.
 

randyrippley

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this may prove to be a problem:
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...fter-electrical-explosion-pushes-back-testing

"


31.01.18
Elizabeth Line hit with major challenges after electrical explosion pushes back testing
The energisation of eastern sections of the Elizabeth Line was pushed back in November after a transformer meant to connect separate electrical appliances exploded, causing testing to be delayed.

The problems, coupled with the complex nature of the project and the scale on which it is being built, have prompted bosses to warn about the costing and timescale of the Elizabeth Line.

In a meeting with mayor of London Sadiq Khan, Crossrail chairman Sir Terry Morgan admitted that the work was “very close” to exceeding its budget after explaining the issues with testing.

Morgan said energisation of the line in the east of London, to be later used for testing, was on course to be completed before electrical issues hampered progress.

“We opened up the energisation of the east side of our railway, which was always going to be our platform for testing this train, in November,” he explained.

“It’s relatively standard but it had to interface between our own power needs and Network Rail’s, it got switched on – and exploded.”
 

Ianno87

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Don't need to do that. The stated line from Terry Morgan is that the central section will open in December 2018. I suspect far too many people have very large performance bonuses linked to that milestone for it not to happen never mind the immense reputational damage to the Mayor, TfL, the Crossrail project and the enormous stick it would hand Mr Grayling to not trust TfL to deliver anything in future even though the DfT are joint sponsors of Crossrail! Such is politics and business.

I expect there will be a mad, mad dash to get things to an operable state even if it is not 100% finished in terms of cosmetic finishes etc. I can't imagine the Queen will be dropping off at Whitechapel to cut any ribbons so if it's not 100% done come December no one will be that bothered. After all Abbey Wood station opened in an incomplete state in terms of lifts, external finishes etc. Provided people can get to / from the trains that will be the main issue although a lack of accessibility, like lifts, would be likely to cause a political furore. Neither TfL nor Network Rail have the best of records of getting lifts into service and keeping them going.

It is worth bearing in mind that there is still another year of work after December 2018 to get the later phases in and they are reliant on complex signalling transitions working reliably and the trains being in a reliable state. Crossrail are "on the hook" for that along with Network Rail in terms of the rebuilt stations and accessibility work on the GW route.

In an extreme scenario, opening but non-stopping Whitechapel would be an option (much like Westminster(?) on the Jubilee Line extension) though I'd imagine there'd be all hands on deck between now and then to avoid this scenario.

The absolute bare minimum would be for the tunnel ventilation/smoke extraction to be working (probably fairly independent of the actual station works anyway), and emergency access/egress available through the station (or suitable workaround agreed with relevant parties)
 

hwl

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With Plan B for Heathrow from May now the probable outcome (360s as today and 345s turnback in Hayes & H. bay platform). How ready is the bay platform give the issues GW were having with the pantograph damage on 387s a few weeks ago and will 9 car 345s fit in its current state?
 
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swt_passenger

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With Plan B for Heathrow from May now the probable outcome (360s as today and 345s turnback in Hayes & H. bay platform). How ready is the bay platform give the issues GW were having with the pantograph damage on 387s a few weeks ago and will 9 car 345s fit in its current state?
The TfL board paper that announced the problems under discussion states that NR will complete the work required for the Hayes & Harlington bay by April 2018. Probably just for 9 car length rather than the random OHLE failure...
 

matt_world2004

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Who is going to be responcible for the lost mileage between hayes and heathrow when only 2 tph run. Under the concession agreement its on MTRs head but tfl are really responcinle for this.
 

rebmcr

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London Reconnections have published an overview article, with some particular new information...

...
Power is taken from the nearby National Grid super grid transformers and stepped down from 400kV to 25kV and passed through two feeder cables into the substation. In the substation itself, there are three bays of switching – two intended for the Great Eastern Main Line (GEML) for Network Rail and one for Crossrail.

There are a series of voltage transformers which step the 25kV down to 110V for use in the circuitry protection system. Only the Crossrail side of things should have been connected up, as the Network Rail setup was not ready to be commissioned. Unfortunately, it turned out that this wasn’t actually true. When the Crossrail side was energised, the Network Rail cabinet – which had been connected – shorted, causing the attached voltage transformer to overheat… aggressively.
...

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-cutting-fine/
 

gwr4090

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London Reconnections have published an overview article, with some particular new information...

https://www.londonreconnections.com/2018/crossrail-cutting-fine/

A very interesting article with lots of new information. Particular concerns are delays in fitting out some of the stations viz Whitechanpel, Woolwich (?), Bond Street, and possibly Paddington. Especially sigificant is the ECTS reliability issue in the Heathrow tunnels (interference between different signalling/protection systems) where it appears there is no proper understanding or solution currently available ?
 

mrmartin

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Surprised that Liverpool Street/Moorgate stations aren't looking a lot more finished from the surface considering they need to be open in 8ish months time...
 

plcd1

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According to The Times
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...taxpayer-chris-grayling-to-tell-mps-lv77md5vp

They are saying it should still finish on time but problems with power supply and signalling are causing issues.

The important question that we don't know the answer to is whether this is a "blow the project budget" extra £500m or whether it is a request to use already budgeted contingency funding for identified project risks. We know that the Crossrail funding budget does include contingency so it would not exactly be a shock at this stage of things for it be used. Signalling was always known to be significant risk on the project. If it is using budgeted contingency it's not brilliant but it's not exactly any sort of crisis. It's precisely why you have contingency.

I'm less convinced that the power supply explosion at Pudding Mill Lane would give rise to a sudden need for hundreds of millions of pounds of extra money. It *has* impacted the programme at precisely the wrong time but if it was a design / manufacturing / installation failure then I don't see why the taxpayer would be "on the hook" - there should be a claim with the supplier for the costs of new equipment and possible some consequential impacts (depends on the contract terms). I think the Times have just chucked this one in because it's a problem that's in the public domain.

Hopefully we might, at some point, get a bit more insight into the issues.
 

rebmcr

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At least this is one occasion where they can't blame Network Rail !

Well, the Pudding Mill Lane explosion was caused by NR leaving their to-be-completed equipment connected up when it should have remained disconnected...
 

pacenotes

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Paddington to Hayes platform extensions opened yesterday. But trains still keep doors closed in coach 8 which is a bit weird.
 

Domh245

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Paddington to Hayes platform extensions opened yesterday. But trains still keep doors closed in coach 8 which is a bit weird.

Coach 7 surely, unless you are referring to GWR 387s? Perhaps not entirely unsurprising though that they aren't pushing the latest SDO software revisions out straight away, the last thing they need on a day when a lot of other TOCs are suffering from bad publicity is to get in on the act (especially TfL rail as it's their first day operating 345s to Hayes)
 

Sebastian O

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New extension backwards onto old station at Hayes and Harlington.
 

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