• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Seemingly unheard-of narrow gauge line in Norfolk

Status
Not open for further replies.
C

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Minor 'family heirloom" recently discovered, of a map of the Norfolk Broads published by the firm of Jarrold's of Norwich -- bought for a family holiday cruising on the Broads in summer 1960 (which planned holiday rapidly "crashed and burned", but that's by the way). Said map is laid out totally for the benefit of the traveller by water -- cut into several semi-mutually-fitting-in sections, basically useless for anyone travelling by land. Beautifully crafted, though -- inscribed with the name, and date (1946) of the cartographer responsible. Seemingly no attempt made to update, 1946 -- 1960, railway information (rail lines and stations prominently shown in red) -- lines abandoned as at 1960, still displayed.

This map shows, in "trademark" red, what it labels as a "narrow gauge railway" (isolated from the national system): running from the south bank of the River Yare, not very far from Buckenham station (north side of the river), for about a mile south-westward to what the map calls "Claxton Castle".

Attempted Googling has delivered nothing about this line. Does anyone on the Forums know anything about it? Information would be gratefully welcomed.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

AJM580

AJM580

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2016
Messages
616
Location
Norwich
Wikipedia has this as well:

Between 1926 and 1936 a narrow gauge railway ran the 1 mile (1.6 km) from Claxton Manor Farm in the village north to the south bank of the River Yare. In 1928 it was extended south to Staines Barn, just east of the church. It was used to transport sugar beet bound for the factory at Cantley which was loaded onto wherries at the river. It used 2-foot (610 mm) gauge jubilee track and a converted Model T Ford as motive power.[4]
 
P

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,086
When you look at old maps there seem to be a lot more of these short lived industrial and estate lines than you would think.
 
C

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
Many thanks to all. My fancy, and wishful thinking, had painted something perhaps a la Sand Hutton or Eaton Hall -- it turns out, though, that this was a purely agricultural line; though with the fairly unusual feature of "feeding into" water transport, rather than standard-gauge rail. The map -- supposedly correct to 1946 -- proves in fact "out of touch" as regards this line -- abandoned, as we learn, in 1936 after a ten-year life, and lifted in 1940.

PeterC said:
When you look at old maps there seem to be a lot more of these short lived industrial and estate lines than you would think.
Click to expand...

There were many such for agricultural purposes, in the Fens region, where I spent my early childhood. One which intrigued me was the quite extensive 2ft gauge (I think) system running to sundry farms, northward from Fleet station on the Midland & Great Northern Joint network's Spalding -- Sutton Bridge section; this line was horse-worked, I believe. I recall travelling on several occasions in the mid-1950s on the main road parallel to the M&GN line, and seeing the level crossing of the narrow-gauge line with the road, just north of Fleet station. If I have things rightly, by that time the n/g line was no longer in use; but the track was still there, including the rails set into the road surface -- with, still present, the old "Crossing; No Gates" warning road signs, showing a steam loco.
 
P

PeterC

Established Member
Joined
29 Sep 2014
Messages
4,086
The one that always puzzles me is at the western edge of the Slough Trading Estate. Older 2.5 inch OS maps show a small ng network, not obviously connected to the standard gauge sidings. I have never found anything about it and don't know if it was an operational ng line, a contractor's temporary line or a mistake on the map.

Another one that fascinated me was the tramway across the tidal mudflats serving the Dengie bombing range.
 
E

EbbwJunction1

Established Member
Joined
25 Mar 2010
Messages
1,565
PeterC said:
When you look at old maps there seem to be a lot more of these short lived industrial and estate lines than you would think.
Click to expand...

A lot of them started after the First World War, when lots of surplus locos, carriages and track were brought back from the Front in France and Belgium and available cheaply.

A recent book (and very good) by Chris Arnott called "Small Island by Little Train: A Narrow-Gauge Adventure" tells the story. Here's a link to Amazon (other retailers are available!):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Small-Island-Little-Train-Narrow-Gauge/dp/0749578491

It does also say that most of them are gone now, more's the pity.
 
delt1c

delt1c

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2008
Messages
2,125
About 20 years ago whilst touring the North of Scotland I came across a narrowgauge line , it was somewhere south of Wick and looked like it was for Peat but never been able to get any info on it
 
1

181

Member
Joined
12 Feb 2013
Messages
801
delt1c said:
About 20 years ago whilst touring the North of Scotland I came across a narrowgauge line , it was somewhere south of Wick and looked like it was for Peat but never been able to get any info on it
Click to expand...

There's a line north of Wick that's used for transporting pipes for the oil industry -- see https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/querycorner/page.htm?id=query/Q10.33 or https://www.railscot.co.uk/companies/S/Subsea_7_Fabrication_Yard/, or Google 'Caithness pipe railway'. It appears that it may still be in use, or at least have been quite recently, and that it has the unusual feature of a lifting overbridge.
 
delt1c

delt1c

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2008
Messages
2,125
181 said:
There's a line north of Wick that's used for transporting pipes for the oil industry -- see https://www.rcts.org.uk/features/querycorner/page.htm?id=query/Q10.33 or https://www.railscot.co.uk/companies/S/Subsea_7_Fabrication_Yard/, or Google 'Caithness pipe railway'. It appears that it may still be in use, or at least have been quite recently, and that it has the unusual feature of a lifting overbridge.
Click to expand...
Wasnt that one , this one crossed a peat bog and looked like it was used for §moving the peat, was narrow gauge and very lightly built
 
Bevan Price

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
7,341
delt1c said:
Wasnt that one , this one crossed a peat bog and looked like it was used for §moving the peat, was narrow gauge and very lightly built
Click to expand...

Some of the narrow guage railways used for peat (or sand) can be "portable", and moved according to need, when all the "local" peat supply has been exhausted. Many years ago, Pilkingtons Glass had narrow guage "railways" near me (St. Helens) that moved from field to field as necessary.
 
341o2

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
EbbwJunction1 said:
A lot of them started after the First World War, when lots of surplus locos, carriages and track were brought back from the Front in France and Belgium and available cheaply.

A recent book (and very good) by Chris Arnott called "Small Island by Little Train: A Narrow-Gauge Adventure" tells the story. Here's a link to Amazon (other retailers are available!):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Small-Island-Little-Train-Narrow-Gauge/dp/0749578491

It does also say that most of them are gone now, more's the pity.
Click to expand...
The WW1 light railways didn't have any carriages apart from converted "d" class bogie opens. Indeed there have been many short lived lines. One local to me was in the grounds of a private house at Bucklers Hard where some of the track was still there (at least some 15 years ago). Another, going back to the 70's trying to find traces of the Pentewan railway was to find sections of track at the harbour, used by Pentewan Sands The Industrial Railway Society is a good starting point

https://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/Archives.htm
 
J

John Webb

Established Member
Joined
5 Jun 2010
Messages
3,071
Location
St Albans
PeterC said:
Some interesting photos of modern industrial narrow gauge at http://www.alankeef.co.uk/gallery/industrial-railways/

The railway on board a ship and the restoration contractor's line inside a church both seem fascinating if a little bizarre.
Click to expand...

The church would appear to be St John the Baptist in Cirencester, described as the largest parish church in Gloucestershire and one of the largest in the country as well. It apparently underwent major restoration works a decade or so ago - a light railway would have minimised wear and tear on the church floor, so I think that's why it would have been chosen.
 
R

randyrippley

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2016
Messages
5,134
Bevan Price said:
Some of the narrow guage railways used for peat (or sand) can be "portable", and moved according to need, when all the "local" peat supply has been exhausted. Many years ago, Pilkingtons Glass had narrow guage "railways" near me (St. Helens) that moved from field to field as necessary.
Click to expand...
There were similar moveable peat railways around Glastonbury, Somerset
 
tsr

tsr

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2011
Messages
7,400
Location
Between the parallel lines
Regarding the OP...

I know Claxton well, although both many of the locals as well as regular visitors such as myself have not readily been informed of the history of the former narrow gauge railway. I first picked up on its former existence a few years ago whilst browsing a (different) book on East Anglian railways, including Norwich tramways, in the Norwich Forum library. The name of the book escapes me.

Having walked much of the route, unfortunately there is little to no evidence left, but the local sailing club makes use of the small staithe by the Beauchamp Arms where I believe there may have been some activity from this little bit of railway.

Allegedly, the Model T based locomotive was accidentally driven into the river, with no injury or loss of life, but it could not be retrieved and therefore the line was left without motive power. I think it was removed at some point, long since the original disaster.

The train was also used by farm workers to get between farms and different fields.

If the railway had a better life, it would have been lovely to think that a bridge could have crossed over towards Buckenham and that it could have been improved into a standard gauge connection from Loddon and Claxton towards Brundall and Norwich. It could have re-employed those who would later suffer from a dwindling ferry trade, and provided a more permanent river crossing. Travelling near the river would have afforded quite a level route, and would have run pretty much in line with at least one bus route which there is still call to run nowadays (Norwich - Rockland - Claxton etc.).
 
341o2

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
Was the model T Ford ex WW1? Known as "Crewe" Ford tractors, 132 Model "T" Fords were converted, being designed for use on very lightly laid lines. The wheelbase was deemed too long, so the car was mounted on a seperate underframe. No reverse gear was supplied, but a lifting mechanism enabled the car to be turned round. They were not very successful due to difficulty of hauling a useful load given the poor state of the tracks - a test run over LNWR metals was not representative of life on the frount where, for example, gun carriages and tanks used the trackbed being nice and nearly level, but did provide a cheap and easy production of motive power when anything with an engine was of value
Source Davies - Light Railways of the First World War
 
Last edited:
30907

30907

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Sep 2012
Messages
18,039
Location
Airedale
John Webb said:
The church would appear to be St John the Baptist in Cirencester, described as the largest parish church in Gloucestershire and one of the largest in the country as well. It apparently underwent major restoration works a decade or so ago - a light railway would have minimised wear and tear on the church floor, so I think that's why it would have been chosen.
Click to expand...
My guess - the church website doesn't say much - is that they laid a complete new paved floor on top of a concrete slab, and a railway would have been ideal for shifting the materials.
 
341o2

341o2

Established Member
Joined
17 Oct 2011
Messages
1,906
Browsing through photographs of WW1 came across thiscrewe tractor.jpg
 
K

KNotts

Member
Joined
20 Nov 2015
Messages
12
There were many such for agricultural purposes, in the Fens region, where I spent my early childhood. One which intrigued me was the quite extensive 2ft gauge (I think) system running to sundry farms, northward from Fleet station on the Midland & Great Northern Joint network's Spalding -- Sutton Bridge section; this line was horse-worked, I believe. I recall travelling on several occasions in the mid-1950s on the main road parallel to the M&GN line, and seeing the level crossing of the narrow-gauge line with the road, just north of Fleet station. If I have things rightly, by that time the n/g line was no longer in use; but the track was still there, including the rails set into the road surface -- with, still present, the old "Crossing; No Gates" warning road signs, showing a steam loco.[/QUOTE]

Nocton Estate - The Lincolnshire Potato Railways

NOCTON ESTATE LIGHT RAILWAY

This extract has been taken from 'The Lincolnshire Potato Railways' - by Stewart E Squires
Oakwood Press - ISBN 0 85361 352 4

https://nocton.blogspot.com/2007/05/nocton-estate-lincolnshire-potato.html
 
C

Calthrop

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2015
Messages
3,305
KNotts -- fascinating material about Nocton -- thanks.

The highly-flat areas of eastern England are not, and never have been, everyone's cup of tea: but they were for a briefish historical spell (until road motor transport came to carry all before it) a wonderful place for lovers of agricultural light railways. These including a standard-gauge element, the Wissington Light Railway: to supply the Wissington sugar-beet refinery, that served by a branch off the originally Great Eastern Denver -- Stoke Ferry branch; wandering widely and with sundry offshoots, over the fenland generally north-east of Ely, and at maximum extent considerably longer than the branch of the public rail system to which it linked. If I remember rightly, the WLR ceased to operate in the late 1950s; save for its initial short section off the Stoke Ferry branch to the refinery itself, which continued in use -- with British Sugar Corporation steam locos -- for quite a while longer.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top