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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018

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Dmthomson

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That's incorrect to just say TL have issues and SE are running normally, 14:32 to Victoria service is 119 minutes late at Chatham, 14:48 is delayed also to Victoria, 14:55 to St. Pancras is delayed and a lot of SE trains are running as delayed or cancelled.
 
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Busaholic

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Yes you would think so, the Rainham bit makes no sense whatsoever, not just in terms of the fact that it displaced a popular and well used semi fast service from Gillingham to Charing X via Woolwich and Lewisham, in terms that there will be a conflict move made at NKE Junction whih if a delay occurred in that area it wouldn’t just knock on effect onto to the Thameslink network but more importantly on to the mainline Cannon Street services, some apologists however would like you to believe that there will be no problems and that everything will be fine with NKE.

Heck why not go all the way to Guildford like old school Thameslink did back in the early 90s! Thameslink promised it wouldn’t intersect too much into SE Territory it it’s done just that in the most bizarre and illogical way possible, then again the words illogical and Thameslink do go hand in hand. :D
The only SE routes from London Bridge that Thameslink should have been granted were Hayes and (possibly) to Sevenoaks and maybe beyond. Better still to only access SE territory via Elephant, then a choice of Herne Hill or Catford (or both) and Sevenoaks either via Orpington or Swanley. Useful connections that existed, if only at limited times, in the past. All the London Bridge stuff should go on to the Southern and aid the passengers from New Cross Gate southwards, in the case of stoppers.
 

MikeWM

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Yes, it's a complete fiddle and fraud, and Thameslink will be trumpeting "improved" figures that aren't. Any professional journalists reading here pleaae take note. Of course, Grayling is too stupid to understand otherwise (I see Modern Railways' key writer this month has indirectly pointed out that Thatcher would never have tolerated anyone so gormless in her cabinet - he regularly reminds me of Jim Hacker in 'Yes Minister'). And Horton knows this.

Are there any printed timetable sheets or printed pocket timetables at the stations that show the "proper" service from May? Have they been revised? Or were they never done?

I have a copy of each of the pocket timetables for the GN side (#9 through #16). Picked up some at Cambridge and some at Kings Cross. I suspect they may be harder to find now though :/

Couldn't find Thameslink ones anywhere - but then timetable provision in my experience at St Pancras has always been very poor (from EMT as well as Thameslink), and haven't been to any other Thameslink stations in the last few weeks.
 

NorthKent1989

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That's incorrect to just say TL have issues and SE are running normally, 14:32 to Victoria service is 119 minutes late at Chatham, 14:48 is delayed also to Victoria, 14:55 to St. Pancras is delayed and a lot of SE trains are running as delayed or cancelled.

That was the info I looked at the time, perhaps it hadn’t updated itself
 

jellybaby

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I have a copy of each of the pocket timetables for the GN side (#9 through #16). Picked up some at Cambridge and some at Kings Cross. I suspect they may be harder to find now though :/
Good. They are missing trains. I look forward to a reprinted one with all the trains once things have settled down. And a pony.
 

AM9

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I have a copy of each of the pocket timetables for the GN side (#9 through #16). Picked up some at Cambridge and some at Kings Cross. I suspect they may be harder to find now though :/

Couldn't find Thameslink ones anywhere - but then timetable provision in my experience at St Pancras has always been very poor (from EMT as well as Thameslink), and haven't been to any other Thameslink stations in the last few weeks.
I have these two (TL1 & TL3) Can't say that I've needed to use them yet.
TL2&3.jpg
 

Failed Unit

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I have these two (TL1 & TL3) Can't say that I've needed to use them yet.
View attachment 47434

Which one of these 3 reasons is why. ;)

1. You live on a high frequency route with well spaced out times you don’t need it.
2. You check with electronic means.
3. You don’t trust the accuracy of the information in it.

Joking aside I tend to be electronic but not saying paper timetables don’t have a place. I hope 3 is a thing of the past soon
 

Downthelane

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17.21 KGX to Cambridge cancelled in RTT but actually running.

15 minutes down but routed FL from Ally Pally to Potter Bar.
 

Hadders

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More shambles tonight. Seems very little running through the core to GN side.

I’m waiting for the 1806 to depart. The departure board and NRE says the train is calling at Hitchin, Arlesey and Sandy additionally. The driver insists it isn’t.

Cue much anger from Hitchin, Arlesey and Biggleswade passengers. There could be another mutiny on this train.

Can GTR get anything right.
 

bramling

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More shambles tonight. Seems very little running through the core to GN side.

I’m waiting for the 1806 to depart. The departure board and NRE says the train is calling at Hitchin, Arlesey and Sandy additionally. The driver insists it isn’t.

Cue much anger from Hitchin, Arlesey and Biggleswade passengers. There could be another mutiny on this train.

Can GTR get anything right.

Some pretty long gaps to Arlesey and Sandy at various times today. I'm sure those affected will be pleased to review at the end of June.
 

Hadders

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Passengers blocking the doors at Stevenage demanding the train calls at Hitchin and Arlesey.

The train eventually departed but i’ve Never seen so many passengers on the the platform at Stevenage at this time of day waiting for a train north.

People are really angry. Staff doing an admirable job in the circumstances but this sort of shambles isn’t fair on anyone.
 

Kanrakuq

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According to people on the train on Twitter, the driver said on the PA system he was "refusing" to stop at those stations, even though they'd been added and were being displayed on the board, so if true, that probably didn't help much.
 

radamfi

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Got diverted via Streatham between Blackfriars and East Croydon, causing an extra 15 minutes of delay, yet trains before and after managed to call at London Bridge.
 

tsr

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Got diverted via Streatham between Blackfriars and East Croydon, causing an extra 15 minutes of delay, yet trains before and after managed to call at London Bridge.

Driver route knowledge varies between drivers. There was clearly no driver available for your train who had knowledge of LBG High Level.
 

MikeWh

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According to people on the train on Twitter, the driver said on the PA system he was "refusing" to stop at those stations, even though they'd been added and were being displayed on the board, so if true, that probably didn't help much.
Why would a driver say that?
 

AM9

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Which one of these 3 reasons is why. ;)

1. You live on a high frequency route with well spaced out times you don’t need it.
2. You check with electronic means.
3. You don’t trust the accuracy of the information in it.

Joking aside I tend to be electronic but not saying paper timetables don’t have a place. I hope 3 is a thing of the past soon

The truth is that on 4th May, I was in London on a travelcard doing a reccie for hosting LDECRexile around on the 10th & 11th of May. When I bought my ticket at St Albans I thought that they might come in handy rather than trying to look at the enormous integrated timetable on the 2020 website with a mobile phone. I planned to browse them en route that day but there was too much to look at to do that. They did come in handy last Friday (25th) when tripping to the London Stadium to see the Rolling Stones. There were no issues getting from St Albans to St Pancras and back.
 

Bromley boy

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Why would a driver say that?

Possibly if the stops weren’t on their diagram, they hadn’t been given a special stop order or verbal instructions from the signaller. Whatever is on the station departure board is irrelevant to this.

Absent the above they would be stopping out of course, which could open up a can of worms.

Typical poor railway communication I expect.
 

MML

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My first ride on the 'Thameslink Express' services today (yes that's what they are being called).

Positives:
They are express, knocking 15 minutes off my previous journey time, 12-car 700/1 units provided instead of 8-car 700/0 on both journeys, so full but neither service was overcrowded. Although, this week is half-term school holidays so a fair number of regular commuters may have taken annual leave. No more announcements from our Texan friend. :D

Negatives:
Both services were delayed, running 16 minutes late which somewhat negated the reduction in overall journey time.
Why is a train originating in Bedford early morning departing 16 minutes late ? It's almost impossible to recoup time with the new schedule and the service remained late running throughout.
I noticed a number of services were still being cancelled. Bedford to East Grinstead (I think our delayed southbound service used it's path). Numerous cancellations this evening with a lot of 700 rolling stock parked in Cricklewood sidings. Unusual to see 8 units in the sidings during the evening peak period. Is this due to shortage of drivers, lack of drivers with required route knowledge or train unserviceability ?

Overall 8/10 but could do better. GN seems to be suffering the most, probably due to infrequent services and lack of route knowledge.
 
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Busaholic

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Why would a train full of respectable, well-paid commuters revolt en masse on a station platform? The world is full of mysteries these days.
It's not new! I remember back in the early i970s when we had ASLEF drivers working to rule, or somesuch, and standing on Gillingham Station (Kent) about 10 p.m., having taken seven hours to get there from Victoria, and the train driver refusing to go any further being threatened with a rolled-up umbrella by a commuter who'd just had too much! Iirc the driver did eventually accede to taking the train on to the Kent coast. It confirmed me in my intention to move into London.
 

Hadders

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Why would a driver say that?

It was a 12-car 365 so not sure what the dispatch arrangements are at Arlesey (I seem to remember issues with 12-car trains there recently).

It appeared to be a cock up rather than driver refusal. The departure boards and NRE said it was calling at Arlesey. There are only platforms on the slow lines at Arlesey but we were on the fast at Stevenage. I’m not sure where you can cross over to the slows between Stevenage and Arlesey.
 

Bromley boy

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A couple of questions which would take away a lot of the uncertainty:

1) Does anyone know how many drivers short GTR currently are before the full planned timetable becomes fully operational?
2) How many drivers are being trained up per day/week?

With this information a possible end date to the disruption could then be advertised to at least try and appease the travelling public. Presumably every day more trains should be able to start running their full planned route/diagram as more drives are trained?

Probably a case of how long is a piece of string! I don’t suppose GTR know either

Part of the problem, as pointed out previously, is that drivers being trained are then having to be taken off other driving duties. Trainee drivers are waiting a long time (6 months +) for an instructor due to a shortages of DIs.

Great username by the way :D.
 

Roy Badami

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One of the biggest frustrations which compounds the general shambles is when actually cancelled trains are wrongly advertised as "Delayed" on information screens. https://twitter.com/GNRailUK/status/1001542295806709762


It's a difficult one. If they're not sure whether they have a driver available for a service, they can either show it as delayed (and then cancel it if it transpires that there is no driver) or cancel it preemptively (and then reinstate it if it transpires that a driver is available after all).

From what I've read they've been doing both at times - and either way they come in for criticism.
 

bramling

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It was a 12-car 365 so not sure what the dispatch arrangements are at Arlesey (I seem to remember issues with 12-car trains there recently).

It appeared to be a cock up rather than driver refusal. The departure boards and NRE said it was calling at Arlesey. There are only platforms on the slow lines at Arlesey but we were on the fast at Stevenage. I’m not sure where you can cross over to the slows between Stevenage and Arlesey.

Two opportunities to cross, at both Hitchin South and at Hitchin itself.

Sounds like the issue was more likely to be to do with dispatch - can they guarantee there would be dispatch staff available now for a 12-car 365? Alternatively the driver could have been close to his finish time, although if the service was on time this is less likely, especially as the extra stops would only add a couple of minutes.
 

Hadders

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Hitchin, Arlesey and Sandy were the Stations not called at. I suspect this was a dispatch issue.
 

jayah

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Seems like a lot of folk are saying that the new timetable is fundamentally flawed on the basis of running trains through the core, between disparate destinations, and the unreliability this creates as a result of problems in one location spreading to others far away.

That's fair enough, of course this is going to be a problem but that's always been a problem on Thameslink; it's the nature of the beast.

What's the alternative, assuming we don't give up on the attempt to increase capacity overall? Trains obviously can't terminate in the core so where is it that they should be turning back? Are there feasible locations that are closer in to London than the current end points? What are they?

The timetable looks to be too complicated on the MML never mind how it ever works on the core. Trains crossing FL/SL/FL all over the place, Bedford, Flitwick, Harpenden, Radlett and then back again at West Hampstead and no grade separation anywhere. I don't know how it ever works.

What happened to KISS?

Genuine fast services only on the FLs. No double switches back again.

Whose idea was it to make all the fast and stopping trains class 9? Must make regulation of it all an absolute nightmare.
 

jon0844

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Why would a driver say that?

Don't know, but some drivers have refused special stop orders. I am sure there are good reasons and what the driver says goes.

Edit: lack of dispatch staff is likely it.
 
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