-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
TransPennine Express North Route, New Timetable
- Thread starter tothetrains
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
Kieran1990
Member
Have to agree- but it seemed like this at this time yesterday and all kind of starts to slip early afternoon.
Holding hope it has settled down more when I go back to work next week!
It's starting at Malton at 1212. The 0856 ex-Liverpool has already terminated there.
mike57
Established Member
I will be using the bus next week, I can make it work for the days I am travelling Seamer to Malton. Scarborough service has gone from OK to useless, been doing the same journeys for two years and even after the snow things recovered quickly. It's always the return journey in the afternoon that's the problem.
Frankly, it's abysmal.
It's one thing having to cancel one service that runs, say, every 15 minutes, but pulling the plug on hourly trains blows a huge hole in the schedule.
People use this service to get to and from Scarborough for work, business, education, pleasure, for Manchester Airport and connections at York.
If you were coming in to Scarborough for lunch/the afternoon, intending to arrive at 11.35, instead you're dumped to wait at Malton - and the following service is late, too - now looking at a 12.47 arrival.
xotGD
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Feb 2017
- Messages
- 6,088
A York - Scarborough shuttle would seem to be the emergency answer. With a top & tail 68 it would boost passenger numbers too.
Either that or turn the Middlesbroughs into Boro - York only, like in the leaf-fall timetable.
Either that or turn the Middlesbroughs into Boro - York only, like in the leaf-fall timetable.
Yes, these would help.
Well they are going to have to address this somehow because to just try and plough onwards is truly irrational.
Spartacus
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 2,928
Scarborough - York 68s and Mk3s might not be a bad idea, minimal requirement for door marshalls, and one station already has slam door services. The trouble might be that it would more or less abandon wheelchair and bike provision between the two, which makes me wonder how long it might take to press the Mk5s into service, but I expect that's even more unrealistic than Mk3s in the short term. Still wouldn't solve moans about everyone having to change at York, but at least it might be more reliable.
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
- Messages
- 8,692
Well the 18:31 arrival into Scarborough is doing well. through Stalybridge 3 minutes early. Of course i boarded it straight from depot at Manchester Piccadilly, it travelled via guide bridge and it hasn't come from Liverpool which gave it a fighting chance....
mike57
Established Member
I have to agree, the current arrangements are not working. A Scarborough shuttle could use platform 2 at York and would almost certainly run to time, which would help passengers changing at Seamer, and passengers from other routes traveling to Scarborough, although I like the convenience of a through journey to Manchester I now often will need to change anyway to get to Man Pic which is where my onward connection usually is, so would be preferable to the current farce as I can wait for a Man Air train at York.
Today has been bad again, York > Seamer, 1 cancellation, and nothing on time, and looks like every short connection at Seamer missed.
Coming into the summer we don't need passenger numbers boosting, but to be fair TPE are doing a good job of solving the overcrowding problems, as people are deserting the train. I used the car today and noticed a definite increase in traffic on the A64 out of Scarborough this morning at around 6.30am. (and of course I added to it as before the timetable change I would have used the train)
Kieran1990
Member
With the Lime Street blockade starting from Sunday and all TPE Liverpool services turned at Man Vic with rather hefty layovers at Victoria (30+) the timetable should hold up a little better. Plus 2 units saved, freed up crews to carry on with Class 68 + Mk3 training.
So fingers triple crossed now that it all comes together during the blockade and TPE use this time to review the timetables and introduce a tweaked version of May’s timetable when the 8 weeks closure is over!
So fingers triple crossed now that it all comes together during the blockade and TPE use this time to review the timetables and introduce a tweaked version of May’s timetable when the 8 weeks closure is over!
Last edited:
Kieran1990
Member
Well as 2 Trains per hour won’t need to go from Vic-Lime St- Vic for 8 weeks it’ll save units.... that should be 3/4 units saved if my maths/ knowledge of the timetbale is right off the top of my head
I might be wrong but I am sure someone pointed out its only two units saved when I said three. Its only a 35 minutes journey time so its not four units.
Kieran1990
Member
My mistake I retract and will edit the post to say 2
One saved on Scarborough, one on Newcastle.
NorthernSpirit
Established Member
- Joined
- 21 Jun 2013
- Messages
- 2,184
The sort of emergency timetable I'm thinking of would be to:
- cancel one of the Newcastle journey's per hour, the other Newcastle service would then run as a six car unit. Start said service from Liverpool.
- cut the Middlesbrough service to run between Leeds and Middlesbrough only and interwork it with the Hull service.
- cut the Scarboroughs to run between York and Scarborough only, this can then be ran as a six car service shuttling back and forth.
- cut the Hull service to run between Leeds and Hull only and interwork it with the Middlesbroughs.
- retain the Leeds to Manchester stoppers.
- run a shuttle between Manchester Airport and Man Victoria only.
YorkshireBear
Established Member
- Joined
- 23 Jul 2010
- Messages
- 8,692
So your answer to the problem is to run one 6 car express from leeds to victoria? Ans one stopper (which cant be 6cars yet) between leeds and piccadilly...
Bit drastic! Taking the newcastle airport out alone should do enough if we really want an emergency timetable.
Would things be better if the Ordsall link had never been built? Is it going to prove a white elephant? Was it's impact on services really examined with all pros and cons? It would appear not.
There would have been no massive reworking of the timetable, making it unworkable. Is the link really necessary and a total waste of money? Would the money have been better spent on other schemes, one easily springing to mind is P15/16 at Piccadilly?
There would have been no massive reworking of the timetable, making it unworkable. Is the link really necessary and a total waste of money? Would the money have been better spent on other schemes, one easily springing to mind is P15/16 at Piccadilly?
Should the link be shut and services go back to old routings in order to return services to a workable timetable?
This point is also valid on several threads in respect of the chaos in the North, especially around Manchester.
Last edited:
Allwinter_Kit
Member
- Joined
- 12 Jul 2017
- Messages
- 147
What was the logic behind having such a 'big bang' in terms of provision rather than phasing changes in over December '17 - December '19 anyway?
That would have enabled checks and adjustments to be made on the way as problems (or potential ones) appeared or for rolling stock orders to be delayed or training issues to be better spread out or electrification to slip or......
I mean, there must have been some reason that the usual approach was abandoned?
That would have enabled checks and adjustments to be made on the way as problems (or potential ones) appeared or for rolling stock orders to be delayed or training issues to be better spread out or electrification to slip or......
I mean, there must have been some reason that the usual approach was abandoned?
Last edited:
You wouldn't really need P15/16 if you didn't have the Ordsall Chord. In all likelihood the money would have just been put towards Crossrail 2 or something instead.
There is nothing fundamentally wrong with the Ordsall Chord, and it should ultimately make the main approaches to Piccadilly work a lot better. It was always going to take some time to bed in, but if that was the only thing going wrong at the moment then I think the number of unhappy people would be much much smaller than now. Even combining it with impossibly tight turnarounds to support an expanded service on the cheap could probably have been managed. The problem is that the issues from these changes are being turned into a nightmare by a more general timetable that can't be staffed and contains moves which are literally impossible.
Spartacus
Established Member
- Joined
- 25 Aug 2009
- Messages
- 2,928
From what I could tell when I did the exercise a few years back of doing a timetable with 6 TPEs an hour it needs a full recast with skip-stopping etc to work at all, there sadly isn't any kind of halfway house possible. I'm not going to try and go into the ins and outs of it though. I'm sure it would have helped if the Northern changes hadn't happened at the same time, but these things get written into franchise requirements, despite the fact they're usually little more use than a kid's Christmas wish list that the parents have no idea how they can afford it all and know it's of doubtful value. Trouble is you can't say 'Santa couldn't fit it on his sleigh', or at least nobody's willing to do so, which is what really needs to happen with such silly requirements which end up messing up everything.
Quite clearly a 5pth timetable that you can usually trust is far better than a 6tph one that you can't trust any further than you can throw a 185. You then have the problem that with 6tph you have more 3 cars running than if you had 5 (especially with 2 loco hauled sets short), so if one fails you can't dump the errant unit somewhere and go forward short formed, you're cancelled, which in places with one train an hour spells serious problems even if everything does run to time.
mike57
Established Member
As usual delays creeping in to the York > Scarborough service. 12:08 at Malton is 23 mins late and 13:08 is already late enough that it will miss the Filey and Brid connection at Seamer. That will no doubt upset some holiday makers, as that is a popular connection. What amazes me is that many Man to Leeds journeys are taking over an hour, that is 1970's timings.
Another terrible day for Scarborough passengers. The 11.35 arrival yet again terminated at Malton, so the 11.46 departure cancelled.
But they can't even run the next service on time, so it's arrives at 12.57 - meaning those de-trained at Malton had to wait there for 50 minutes, while those who expected to leave on the 11.46 still await to leave Scarborough 75 minutes later than they should have.
But they can't even run the next service on time, so it's arrives at 12.57 - meaning those de-trained at Malton had to wait there for 50 minutes, while those who expected to leave on the 11.46 still await to leave Scarborough 75 minutes later than they should have.
td97
Established Member
- Joined
- 26 Jul 2017
- Messages
- 1,299
Was on 9M09, which was running 100% RT all the way from Durham to York. Lost 2 minutes at Church Fenton due to 29L 2E09 and a further 2 minutes at Micklefield due to 10L 1U03. So 4 minutes late into Leeds, then was held for another few minutes to exit the station from 16b.
4L into Manchester, but I can't help but feel that Northern's lateness and poor performance is impacting on TPE across the core.
4L into Manchester, but I can't help but feel that Northern's lateness and poor performance is impacting on TPE across the core.
- Status