Just the one set of bays (+ the 4 individual longitudinal seats, my favourite ones) in the middle of the vehicle as they left LU. The other 4 seating areas were all longitudinal
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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail
- Thread starter pemma
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Just the one set of bays (+ the 4 individual longitudinal seats, my favourite ones) in the middle of the vehicle as they left LU. The other 4 seating areas were all longitudinal
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Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
On one coach there's a door blocked out on both sides with a window on one side only, I'd venture that it will be going there.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Thought so, so that means some seats coming out of other units to put 6 table bays in per coach (the ends seem to be longitudinal). ISTR that there were more facing bays in the as built LU layout than the more recent one?
Those seats will have a useful dual purpose - for sitting on when it's busy, and for piling bags on when it's less busy but there are a lot of tourists or hikers.
I do hope so - rolling out 'new' units there without them would probably not be well received!
Nope, the interior layout was unchanged at refurbishment, although it was significantly less orange afterwards!
I'm not a huge fan of those bay seats though, I always found they were a little short on leg room - even when I was younger and smaller! I can't imagine that with tables in there as well they'd be particularly comfortable when busy
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
No worse than a Class 153 though, where the only option is a table and hoping for nobody opposite! At least on those a tall person (for any realistic definition of tall) can sit in one of the sideways facing seats and basically get infinite legroom.
LunchSociety
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The linked article from the Vivarail website confirms that a toilet will be fitted.
Not sure how I missed that, I only noticed the video. My contact lenses seem to be working as well as a 385's windscreen!
Elecman
Established Member
Not just a toilet - a Welsh toilet from a leading manufacturer.
And of course World Leading
D1009
Established Member
Railway Gazette has the story:
As posted in the Wales & Borders thread
Presumably that's why they've got the battery option, pumping diesel fumes in to the underground section on Merseyrail won't be allowed.
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/business/what-new-rail-franchise-mean-14762263
Presumably that's why they've got the battery option, pumping diesel fumes in to the underground section on Merseyrail won't be allowed.
But five units won't cover Wrexham - Liverpool, Conwy Valley and Crewe - Chester.
It's understood Conwy Valley and Crewe-Chester will only be temporary until 2021 so that 150s can be cascaded to South Wales to replace Pacers.
Although, I'm not sure how they can do 2tph on Borderlands and a Liverpool extension unless the plan is to get more D-Trains if the Liverpool idea works out.
They could use the third rail I'd have thought?
D365
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Depends what form the charging system solution will take, if it's a third rail whether that will be top-contact.
trash80
Established Member
Maybe getting some government funding for using battery tech?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
One of the safety criticisms of the conventional 3rd rail system is that top-contact is riskier than side-contact (Bury) or bottom-contact (DLR), as well as being more vulnerable to frost...
However, to introduce battery-electric trains to a system which has a 3rd-rail available but specifying an incompatible mode of charging would be absolute stupidity.
trash80
Established Member
Well it is Britain
Yes except when brand new trains are ordered (and even sometimes when they are) it's square pegs for round holes as our national rolling stock strategy.
D365
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Vivarail did receive a grant for the development of their battery train system.
I can't remember entirely off the top of my head, but the Vivarail charging solution (whatever form it takes) will be powered up only when a battery train is stopped and completes the circuit.
The_Engineer
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The five off for the Welsh franchise don't require shore battery charging. The battery is charged from the diesel engine derived electrical supply, and it allows for regenerative braking to also charge the battery giving better overall efficiency. The battery in this case is a smaller one capacity wise than a purely battery-driven one; it allows for an electric powered arrival and departure from all or certain stations avoiding smelly diesel fumes!!
Third-rail capability could be added later as the line voltage will be compatible with the dc output from both the battery and diesel power packs. I have seen from Viva Rail's presentations that their traction system design allows for quick changes between diesel, battery and third rail options and combinations thereof. I don't recall seeing a 25kV overhead option (yet!).
EXTRACT from VivaRail website: http://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-announce-new-order-for-wales-and-borders/
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The_Engineer
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Maybe you are but, if the franchise agreement does not cover it, it will not happen unless someone covers the additional costs....
Including unless someone either thinks it is with merit or has already thought of it ... Bidston has been a pain for decades and probably more than half a century. At least we now have the technology.
The_Engineer
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Indeed! The option is there......
notlob.divad
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Surely it can charge off the DC bus, when there is unused capacity. however the power gets to the bus is rather irrelevant and the basis of Vivarail's modular generator/battery rafts. Thus it would appear relatively simple to retain the dc collection shoegear and allow it to both run and charge off that. (At least as far as James Street)
I suspect as ever with the fragmented railway that it will be politics and paperwork rather than the engineering that prevents the logical solution of running the D-trains to the location the people want to go.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Five units with one spare (so 4 diagrammed) won't cover running into Liverpool either. My suspicion is that the 230s are a stopgap - they only need to last 10 years max - after which it's likely a follow on order of bi-mode Merseyrail FLIRTs would take over with Merseyrail Electrics taking over operations. Otherwise it's really hard to justify why North Wales should get 230s and not brand new FLIRTs as the South Wales rural services are getting.
I can't see Merseytravel allowing 230s into the tunnels once the FLIRTs are there. It would just add complexity, and prevent the future consideration of safety improvements like platform-edge doors.
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Where has the idea of the Bidston extension into Liverpool come from? Anything official?
notlob.divad
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