I fear unions are less powerful than people believe. Can you imagine the reaction if exasperated platform staff went on strike? Who would sympathise? I wouldn’t want their job.
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Thameslink Services/Timetable from May 20th 2018
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I fear unions are less powerful than people believe. Can you imagine the reaction if exasperated platform staff went on strike? Who would sympathise? I wouldn’t want their job.
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Stampy
Member
This is what i witnessed at Finsbury Park on Thursday.
Driver STAYED with the train until (in the train i'd just left's case - an off duty driver) the replacement turned up..
And as I posted earlier, this was at the start of the rush hour, with the train already signaled out, blocking the main line...
But the point was to move stoppers out of termini to expand their capacity within existing confines. Where would the northbound services terminate now that L Bridge has been rescoped for this purpose? The problem at the moment is one of staff shortages in essence. If the timetable can’t be made to work once all the resources are in place, it’s time to think again. I agree there are issues with the trains too - entirely DFT created incidentally, and these could be solved with eventual refits or retro fits.
NorthKent1989
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Yesterday was the worst day to travel with shameslink for me. Most thameslink services to abbey wood from gravesend were cancelled so i then decided to get a SE train to Dartford to see if they were any SE trains going to abbey wood but nothing. So then i saw the next thameslink train to abbey wood but guess what, cancelled.
So then i decided to rely on the buses and bloody hell what a nightmare that was. So stressed right now. Thanks a lot for your useless service shameslink.
I’ve been going via Victoria most days I’m not risking going to Blackfriars or London Bridge for the fear that there won’t be a Rochester train for six hours, even when I have been based in Shadwell I will head To Victoria as I cannot trust Thameslink to run the service and it has a knock on effect on South Eastern.
Surely they cannot keep using this timetable!
Class465fan
Member
It needs to be thrown in the bin.
Steve Harris
Member
Who said strike ?
There is always more than 1 way to skin a cat !
You just have to be as smart as you employer. i.e. use any company proceedures/polices to your advantage.
Steve Harris
Member
Then set on fire !!!!!
Class465fan
Member
Fully agree
Mutant Lemming
Established Member
It's the "yes man" mentality that currently pervades - no negativity and a can do attitude will get the job done .People who raise issues are 'putting obstacles in the way of progress'. 'There is no place in this organisation for negativity'. Hence managers are afraid to contradict ludicrous or over ambitious plans or ideas and we end up with this kind of mess.
That’s the problem. When front line staff do follow procedure they end up being abused. They have to grow a shell to survive. For example dispatch staff can’t start looking at an iPad to find train info whilst dispatching. If they do there will be a manager somewhere waiting to pounce. Even if they are happy to help. So they essentially have to ignore people or ask them to wait. People think they are being rude. The whole management culture needs to be changed but I won’t hold my breath.
The Box Photter
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Ok, so that's three people. What about the thousands of people who've been Royally screwed by the disaster that's unfolded over the past three weeks?
Obviously, being able to avoid using the Northern or Victoria Lines in rush hour is a benefit, but it isn't a neccessity. Being able to get into London from Arlesey, Hitchin, Harpenden, Flitwick etc, where there are no alternative means IS a necessity.
I don't see why those passengers' lives should be dislocated just so you don't have to use the tube.
NorthKent1989
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Thats all fine and dandy but how many trains from Cambridge have actually made it through the core since this shambles begun? Meanwhile on other parts of the network some stations have had no rail service since it began, and some services have long gaps between services operated by Thameslink.
Steve Harris
Member
Not quite true, as 2 of those people could just walk from Kings Cross to St Pancras.
So no need for tube.
Or am i missing something?
Failed Unit
Established Member
Interesting about some of the issues raised.
I was on the 1251 London Kings Cross - Cambridge train yesterday. It was left open on the previous arrival (when it was expected to form the 1221). Someone made an announcement that the train had no driver around 1215. (It was a class 700)
Later 4 drivers got on. One ask another if they expect it to go anywhere. Response well it isn’t set up yet so who know.
I don’t know where the drivers were going, or if they were on duty. But let’s say they were on duty and using the train to get to their next working. That could soon be 4 trains cancelled. I suspect that is why things are getting worse. Drivers need to take trains between duties. GTR don’t like running trains.
I was on the 1251 London Kings Cross - Cambridge train yesterday. It was left open on the previous arrival (when it was expected to form the 1221). Someone made an announcement that the train had no driver around 1215. (It was a class 700)
Later 4 drivers got on. One ask another if they expect it to go anywhere. Response well it isn’t set up yet so who know.
I don’t know where the drivers were going, or if they were on duty. But let’s say they were on duty and using the train to get to their next working. That could soon be 4 trains cancelled. I suspect that is why things are getting worse. Drivers need to take trains between duties. GTR don’t like running trains.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Yes. Most trains are cancelled on GN. Places like Sandy have no trains to anywhere. Take yesterday. No stopping service out of kings cross for 3 hours. Effectively closed, Welwyn North, Knebworth, Ashwell and Morden, Foxton, Meldreth and Shepreth.
Same thing recently on Peterborough route. Cancellations and skip stopping result in the effective closure of station on that route.
Stampy
Member
Exactly what happened on Thursday, an "off duty" driver volunteered to take a train back to PBO as the relief driver wasn't there!!!
What next - driver's "dumped" at various locations on the GTR route as "spares"???
Teflon Lettuce
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I haven't mentioned anything about a dispute... my question was is the level of training a legal requirement or is it due to union agreements. And perhaps if people didn't keep on wilfully misreading my question for their own personal agenda I wouldn't have to re- ask the question would I?
Staff can open a cab door on a 700, use the guards panel to open or close the doors (as they must to shut down a train) and also make a PA or cab to cab call. But while they have to do this to shut down a train, I am not sure if they are allowed to open a train before a driver does.
Steve Harris
Member
I think you are getting a little confused. I was referring to The Box Photter's post about 3 people who want the service through the core. When everybody else just wants to get to London first !!
I am fully aware of the gaps in (thameslink and GN) services as i live in a Cambridgeshire village with a town with a railway station nearby which has seen a 3 hour gap in services!
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Yes it is legal and regulated heavily. If I took a train I wasn't qualified to drive on a route I wasn't qualified to drive upon then I'd find myself in serious trouble and likely within a prison if something went wrong. You have to sign your name against traction and routes meaning you are responsible for your actions on them and liable for when it goes wrong. You can stop asking now
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Which doesn't work if the train does not know its location.
theageofthetra
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Yes I worked in a place with this kind of idiotic mentality. Brought a formally great place to work down on its knees and most decent staff left.
the Rat
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Yes it is legal and regulated heavily. If I took a train I wasn't qualified to drive on a route I wasn't qualified to drive upon then I'd find myself in serious trouble and likely within a prison if something went wrong. You have to sign your name against traction and routes meaning you are responsible for your actions on them and liable for when it goes wrong. You can stop asking now
Nice one!
Now we can get back to the business in hand, namely discussing the cut and thrust of the new timetable - and, let's face it, it's nearly all cut and very little thrust!
GoatSarah
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Almost none, but you're missing the point. It was claimed that nobody wants the Railplan 2020 services. Plenty of us want those services.
The fact that GTR's attempt to implement them has resulted in complete meltdown of their east coast mainline services is independent of whether they'd be useful services that people want if they were actually able to run them.
Class465fan
Member
And plenty of us don't want those services due to their silly unnecessary cancellations.
Steve Harris
Member
Looks like someone should perhaps start a poll ?
Well, when they *do* start making it through the core on a regular basis, it is something I'll still be very much looking forward to.
You claimed nobody wanted RailPlan 2020 (the completed, fully working version). I did and still do.
GoatSarah
Member
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I've been waiting for through trains from GN pretty much from when they first mooted Thameslink 2000.
Southern
Member
Been running every summer for the last couple of years - current route via Greenwich is a new one though as it used to be a simple extension of one of two of the Charing X - Gillingham via Blackheath services.
On a side note, see a few cancellations reported for the Thameslink services on the Penge East line.
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