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Usage of Networkers

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Jack Wicket

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10 Jun 2018
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20
I feel like no train operating company is doing something about the networkers. They want to remove them however you can do a lot with them. I don't think the networkers should be taken out of service yet, they are still good trains belongs they do works to them. There is no need spending a lot of money on new trains when the current ones are fine. Yes, they have no air con but we can cope for now. People manage to cope on London Undergroind so why can't they manage on Newtowkers? Also I know how 12 car networkers are banned on some routes, but why don't they just run more services?

Yes, the networkers are horrible in the way they are now. However there are multiple things that can be done.

The things that can be done are:

- New disabled area
- Change seeting plan from 2+3 to 2+2 to create more space
- A better announcement system, the current one is really bad as it starts in the middle of the announcement
- More services on the banned 12 car routes
- Remove them from mainline services, I hate going on a long journey to Kent on a networker. They are not built for that

Reply on what you think can be done or any good Infomation.
 
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Starmill

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The 365s have a new accessible toilet and wheelchair space don't they? As do a number of Southeastern's networkers?
 

Jack Wicket

Member
Joined
10 Jun 2018
Messages
20
The 365s have a new accessible toilet and wheelchair space don't they? As do a number of Southeastern's networkers?
Yes, I think they do however they still need to improve a lot of things, southeastern are doing stuff in the cheap and it isn't fair for customers.
 

Starmill

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Yes, I think they do however they still need to improve a lot of things, southeastern are doing stuff in the cheap and it isn't fair for customers.
The work is being done cheaply because the franchise is nearly over - their owners are probably paying for the modifications.

The electrostar refurbishment at Southeastern was very high quality.

It's also widely expected that they will be replaced by the incoming franchise.
 

LA50041

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2017
Messages
2,158
I feel like no train operating company is doing something about the networkers. They want to remove them however you can do a lot with them. I don't think the networkers should be taken out of service yet, they are still good trains belongs they do works to them. There is no need spending a lot of money on new trains when the current ones are fine. Yes, they have no air con but we can cope for now. People manage to cope on London Undergroind so why can't they manage on Newtowkers? Also I know how 12 car networkers are banned on some routes, but why don't they just run more services?

Yes, the networkers are horrible in the way they are now. However there are multiple things that can be done.

The things that can be done are:

- New disabled area
- Change seeting plan from 2+3 to 2+2 to create more space
- A better announcement system, the current one is really bad as it starts in the middle of the announcement
- More services on the banned 12 car routes
- Remove them from mainline services, I hate going on a long journey to Kent on a networker. They are not built for that

Reply on what you think can be done or any good Infomation.
networkers have had thier day and need replacing.
the vestibules are too narrow and cramped causing congestion on loading/unloading.
Where would you run additional services to/from instead of running 12 cars in the peak? There are no paths into any of the london terminals at peak times.
With the amount of additional properties being built in SE london it needs better capicty as Thameslink/Crossrail are only serving the North Kent route, whilst the Bexleyheath line is suffering with chronic overcrowding.
 

otomous

Member
Joined
5 Oct 2011
Messages
444
I feel like no train operating company is doing something about the networkers. They want to remove them however you can do a lot with them. I don't think the networkers should be taken out of service yet, they are still good trains belongs they do works to them. There is no need spending a lot of money on new trains when the current ones are fine. Yes, they have no air con but we can cope for now. People manage to cope on London Undergroind so why can't they manage on Newtowkers? Also I know how 12 car networkers are banned on some routes, but why don't they just run more services?

Yes, the networkers are horrible in the way they are now. However there are multiple things that can be done.

The things that can be done are:

- New disabled area
- Change seeting plan from 2+3 to 2+2 to create more space
- A better announcement system, the current one is really bad as it starts in the middle of the announcement
- More services on the banned 12 car routes
- Remove them from mainline services, I hate going on a long journey to Kent on a networker. They are not built for that

Reply on what you think can be done or any good Infomation.

Fitting in more services is tricky with the congested nature of the SE network and the various conflicting junctions slowing everything down.
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
5,841
Had the 465s had a decent refurbishment at some point in their lives, to a similar standard to the SWT 455 refurbishment with a more modern, metro interior, I wonder whether we would be talking about them being replaced now.
 

Royston Vasey

Established Member
Joined
14 May 2008
Messages
2,167
Location
Cambridge
I feel like no train operating company is doing something about the networkers. They want to remove them however you can do a lot with them. I don't think the networkers should be taken out of service yet, they are still good trains belongs they do works to them. There is no need spending a lot of money on new trains when the current ones are fine. Yes, they have no air con but we can cope for now. People manage to cope on London Undergroind so why can't they manage on Newtowkers? Also I know how 12 car networkers are banned on some routes, but why don't they just run more services?

Yes, the networkers are horrible in the way they are now. However there are multiple things that can be done.

The things that can be done are:

- New disabled area
- Change seeting plan from 2+3 to 2+2 to create more space
- A better announcement system, the current one is really bad as it starts in the middle of the announcement
- More services on the banned 12 car routes
- Remove them from mainline services, I hate going on a long journey to Kent on a networker. They are not built for that

Reply on what you think can be done or any good Infomation.

networkers have had thier day and need replacing.
the vestibules are too narrow and cramped causing congestion on loading/unloading.
Where would you run additional services to/from instead of running 12 cars in the peak? There are no paths into any of the london terminals at peak times.
With the amount of additional properties being built in SE london it needs better capicty as Thameslink/Crossrail are only serving the North Kent route, whilst the Bexleyheath line is suffering with chronic overcrowding.

You should specify you’re talking about 465/466s as the 365s are fantastic trains comfortably configured and still in great nick.
 

DVD

Member
Joined
23 Jul 2009
Messages
76
Location
Sidcup
You should specify you’re talking about 465/466s as the 365s are fantastic trains comfortably configured and still in great nick.
Southeastern's Class 465/466 Networkers for ok for off peak services, but have always been highly unsuitable for peak services. Conversion to 2 + 2 seating would help, and the on-going refurbishment is providing a large disabled seating area and new, larger, nicer and disability compliant toilets, although there are still plenty yet to be refurbished. But their reliabilty is appalling and always has been since their introduction in the early 1990s. They are consistently near the bottom of the Golden Spanner tables and cancellations due to train failure is a daily event on Southeastern.

The doorway / vestibule areas are cramped which greatly slows down boarding and alighting, half the units have a primitive forced air ventilation system which frequently doesn't work (the other half lack this), the floors are cheap, tatty and often filthy, most of the window seals are missing and many windows are in a poor condition, the PA system is poor. On the plus side, the seating is quite comfortable.

Connex recognised the Networker's deficiencies when they went for the Class 376 stock fifteen years ago.

Many more 12 car Networker services are simply not possible because (a) there is not enough stock (b) power supplies are not adequate (c) half the platforms at Charing Cross can't accommdate 12 car units and their Selective Door Opening has never worked.

If you were to properly refurbish them to the standards of modern rolling stock you would therefore probably need to (a) replace the floors (b) replace the windows (c) convert to 2 + 2 seating (d) remove seating and panelling in the vestibule doorways (e) install a decent PA system (f) install proper aircon (g) redesign the SDO.

None of this could happen until the TOC is refranchised and, whoever wins the franchise would almost certainly go for new rolling stock which would be more cost effective (and I think is suggested in the DFT franchise specification).
 

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,396
Many more 12 car Networker services are simply not possible because (a) there is not enough stock (b) power supplies are not adequate (c) half the platforms at Charing Cross can't accommdate 12 car units and their Selective Door Opening has never worked.

I believe all three bidders are proposing brand new rolling stock, which will solve all of the issues you mention. There are various initiatives ongoing to look at how we can run new power-hungry (read: longer and air-conditioned) rolling stock while maintaining much of the existing power infrastructure.
 

DelW

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2015
Messages
3,834
Had the 465s had a decent refurbishment at some point in their lives, to a similar standard to the SWT 455 refurbishment with a more modern, metro interior, I wonder whether we would be talking about them being replaced now.
Though that refurb, and even the more recent traction equipment replacement (AC motors) didn't save the 455s when SWR took over...
 
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