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LNER Livery

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STEVIEBOY1

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As well as the teak stock, what was the livery on the former LNER after nationalisation, did they paint over the teak carriages?
 
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A0wen

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mpthomson

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If teak coaches and blue locos are not seen as realistic, the old (real) LNER used green and cream on their "tourist" stock - a pleasing combination that would not look out of place today.

And of course the famous LNER Silver Jubilee liner train was all silver.

Anything but the horrendous garish red as proposed by the fake new LNER.

And in the 48hrs since your last post the clock STILL hasn't wound back to the year 1938.......

Old operating company liveries belong where they are, in the past...
 

mpthomson

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it was particularly noticable in the mid to late 90s when paints started removing all the 'nasty' for the environment but good for colourfatness and retaining a finish chemicals ... faded and 'chalky' solid red cars only a few years old were really common

Indeed, in the trade Vauxhalls often came in 'Doom Blue' and 'Doom Red', they were notorious for it, as were Fiats.
 

DarloRich

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And in the 48hrs since your last post the clock STILL hasn't wound back to the year 1938.......

Old operating company liveries belong where they are, in the past...

I don't understand the desire for many posters here to waste loads of taxpayers money on fluff! Many seem to be strangers to the real world. The desitre seems to based on the fact that an old name has been used. Would the paint wibble be so intense if the new operate was called Soctland North London Railway ?
 
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Indeed, in the trade Vauxhalls often came in 'Doom Blue' and 'Doom Red', they were notorious for it, as were Fiats.
also seen it on the that 'fag packet purple' that a load of early Corsas seemed to be painted ... ( which when new looked quite good on Mk3 astras )
 

A0wen

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And in the 48hrs since your last post the clock STILL hasn't wound back to the year 1938.......

Old operating company liveries belong where they are, in the past...

Be fair, muddythefish lives in 1978 as his views on the MML attest - it's just that his rose tinted glasses give him the view that all was well in 1938 as well.

There's nothing fundamentally wrong with the red livery - especially given the 91s and HSTs won't be on the ECML in a couple of years time. I hope that something a bit more striking is done for the Azuma's though - can't say I'm a fan of the new "white" livery on the Pendolinos. And I seem to recall BR tried various white based liveries and dropped them..... something to do with them never looking clean.
 

alexl92

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It doesn’t make sense to change the colour at the moment purely because most of the stock has been refurbished and much of the interiors are mostly red now too. You’d have to do a full new refurb again - a big waste of money.

THing is, I actually hate the livery that’s on the 225s and 125s at the moment - the diagonal swishes and fade between red and white make it look super tacky to me, and there’s something about the specific shade of red that I can’t put my finger on but it makes it look cheap - I think there’s a slightly pinky tinge to it in certain lights? It’s not even about it being a ‘Virgin’ red as I’d generally associate a more deep/scarlet shade with them. I’m not sure. But I do think it’s the worst livery the 91s & MKIVs have worn.

I live in hope that the next operator will choose something modern but classy, but I do appreciate how wasteful it would be to change now.
 

A0wen

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It doesn’t make sense to change the colour at the moment purely because most of the stock has been refurbished and much of the interiors are mostly red now too. You’d have to do a full new refurb again - a big waste of money.

THing is, I actually hate the livery that’s on the 225s and 125s at the moment - the diagonal swishes and fade between red and white make it look super tacky to me, and there’s something about the specific shade of red that I can’t put my finger on but it makes it look cheap - I think there’s a slightly pinky tinge to it in certain lights? It’s not even about it being a ‘Virgin’ red as I’d generally associate a more deep/scarlet shade with them. I’m not sure. But I do think it’s the worst livery the 91s & MKIVs have worn.

I live in hope that the next operator will choose something modern but classy, but I do appreciate how wasteful it would be to change now.

I don't think the red is the worst livery to adorn the 225s or 125s by a long way - I think that accolade has to go to either the NXEC livery or the East Coast 'battleship' grey - which I always thought look hideous, completely drab and lacking in class. Looked like they'd let everything out in primer.

On the 125s, I'd also add in the original MML 'teal, orange and grey' which I never thought suited the HSTs, looked fine on the Turbostars though - I think it was the darker tinted glass which made it better on those.
 

jonathan01n

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I know LNER livery is now based on red, but I still think they should paint one set of Class 800 in blue. Reason is this year is Mallard 80th birthday and it set up the speed record for steam at July that year. Mallard represent the highest technology at that time and class 800 represent the latest technology now. It will be great if a blue 800 is having a picture with Mallard.
 

Helvellyn

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I know LNER livery is now based on red, but I still think they should paint one set of Class 800 in blue. Reason is this year is Mallard 80th birthday and it set up the speed record for steam at July that year. Mallard represent the highest technology at that time and class 800 represent the latest technology now. It will be great if a blue 800 is having a picture with Mallard.
Garter Blue with Silver doors (a nod to Silver Link) would look great on the Azumas, especially with the new LNER logo done in silver as well. But realistically the rebrand from VTEC to LNER has cost £8 million as is. Adding in a full respray of every Azuma to a new base coat would add to that cost. I know it could be done with vinyls but they aren't cheap either.

Now if only LMS came back for West Coast, complete with Maroon base colour and Gold doors. Could even get some streamliner style gold lining at the driving ends! MInd you, I'd equally prefer Midland Counties Railway to East Midlands Railway/Trains!

As for HS2 I think Grand Union Railway could work as a brand - the Grand Union canal runs London to Birmingham and gained subsequent branches a bit like HS2 will. But probably far too nostalgic sounding for the marketing whizzkids.
 

Craigster90

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I’m at York where there’s an HST 43 set on Platform 6, the power car at one end (inside the station) is 43367 and is rebranded LNER, the power car at the other end, outside the station and basking in the sunshine is 43239 which is still Virgin branded!
 

transmanche

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I know LNER livery is now based on red, but I still think they should paint one set of Class 800 in blue. Reason is this year is Mallard 80th birthday and it set up the speed record for steam at July that year. Mallard represent the highest technology at that time and class 800 represent the latest technology now.
I know it's easy to get all misty-eyed over the Mallard. And whilst the speed record was a great achievement, the A4 Pacifics were by no means 'the latest technology at that time'. Everyone else was looking at diesel, gas turbine or electric locomotives.

The same year as Mallard's record-breaking run, the Germans built a prototype Class E19 electric loco, designed to operate at up to 140mph:

E19 12 in München (1967) [CC BY-SA 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], by Roger Wollstadt, from Wikimedia Commons

Whilst the Americans had already been using the GG1 class of 100mph electric locos for four years :

The Congressional Pennsylvania Railroad [Public domain], by Association of American Railroads - from Wikimedia Commons
 

57Tonic

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Notice to Photoshopers out there, I was trying to visualise an 800 with the driving car in Mallard blue and the second car fading out from LNER Teak to white. To celebrate Mallard 80. (I blame the drugs I'm taking.)
Then again if you want to go truly nostalgic rusty brown facing up to sooty grey as it was in my trains potting days.
 

CosherB

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Notice to Photoshopers out there, I was trying to visualise an 800 with the driving car in Mallard blue and the second car fading out from LNER Teak to white. To celebrate Mallard 80. (I blame the drugs I'm taking.)
Then again if you want to go truly nostalgic rusty brown facing up to sooty grey as it was in my trains potting days.
Thumbs up from Stevie Wonder.
 

pdeaves

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Garter Blue with Silver doors (a nod to Silver Link) would look great on the Azumas, especially with the new LNER logo done in silver as well. But realistically the rebrand from VTEC to LNER has cost £8 million as is. Adding in a full respray of every Azuma to a new base coat would add to that cost. I know it could be done with vinyls but they aren't cheap either.
In fairness, the person to whom you were replying suggested it as a one-off for publicity/anniversary celebration, not the full fleet.
 

Brian Aylott

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I know LNER livery is now based on red, but I still think they should paint one set of Class 800 in blue. Reason is this year is Mallard 80th birthday and it set up the speed record for steam at July that year. Mallard represent the highest technology at that time and class 800 represent the latest technology now. It will be great if a blue 800 is having a picture with Mallard.
I have no doubt they will be happy to paint one in a blue livery - if you give them the money for changing the livery (the materials and labour) and for the time it is out of traffic
Brian
 

Rhydgaled

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Most passengers don't give a stuff which colour was "historically associatied with the ECML to any great extent".

Red has been used for the past few years, it's probably the colour that most actual passengers associate with the ECML. If not that then probably the dark blue GNER scheme (you know, the one with the red stripe and the red doors).
The GNER livery looked much better when the doors weren't red. A question I've had for a while is whether the shade of blue was also changed when GNER painted the doors red; I remember a couple of (Hornby?) models of GNER sets in the National Railway Muesum and the one with red doors was a different shade of blue to the other on the model, but was the blue also changed on the real thing?

Essentially, LNER used lots of colours on the ECML (as did BR, with their green, blue, silver etc), but you don't like red because.... something something Virgin something?
I don't like the idea of retaining red as a predominate colour in the new LNER livery on a long-term basis, partly because (unlike the LNER with locos variously in Apple Green, Garter Blue and Silver, and thus no one "historically associatied" colour) red is (in my mind at least) "historically associatied" with the LMS/WCML. The Midland Railway had Midland red, the LMS Crimson Lake and BR's Midland region also used red (ok, it would normally be called maroon but that is closer to red than anything else) and ICWC has been a Virgin franchise since privatisation.

I personally think the livery for the Azumas should use blue rather than red, not because of any 'historic association' with LNER itself but because of the BR Eastern Region station signage and GNER rolling stock colour schemes. A very quick photoshop of the image posted by somebody else previously:
LNER-Azuma-Blue.png

It doesn’t make sense to change the colour at the moment purely because most of the stock has been refurbished and much of the interiors are mostly red now too. You’d have to do a full new refurb again - a big waste of money
I agree; assuming that it isn't possible simply to rip the VTEC vinyls off and go back to East Coast's grey then the existing fleet (except for the small subfleet of IC225s I still hope will be kept for Edinburgh fasts) should retain the red and white livery to save money, but the new 800/801 units should not use red in their colour scheme.

THing is, I actually hate the livery that’s on the 225s and 125s at the moment - the diagonal swishes and fade between red and white make it look super tacky to me, and there’s something about the specific shade of red that I can’t put my finger on but it makes it look cheap - I think there’s a slightly pinky tinge to it in certain lights? It’s not even about it being a ‘Virgin’ red as I’d generally associate a more deep/scarlet shade with them. I’m not sure. But I do think it’s the worst livery the 91s & MKIVs have worn.
I agree that the primary VTEC livery is among the worst the 91s have worn; the curves of the livery just don't suit the angular shape of the 91s at all. The same problem (curvy livery being unsuitable for the vehicle) applies to the mark 4 DVTs and class 43 powercars too but I don't mind VTEC's livery on the coaches (except the buffet cars with the huge red area) that much.

I don't think the red is the worst livery to adorn the 225s or 125s by a long way - I think that accolade has to go to either the NXEC livery or the East Coast 'battleship' grey - which I always thought look hideous, completely drab and lacking in class. Looked like they'd let everything out in primer.
The East Coast grey was a bit drab, but I think the locos and stock (only one 91 and no mark 4s, but several IC125 sets) in National Express livery with the East Coast logos I thought looked really good. East Coast actually made the trains look worse when they repainted into their own livery rather than just rebranding National Express'.
 

transmanche

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[...]but the new 800/801 units should not use red in their colour scheme.
Because an earlier company with a similar name didn't use red locomotives? What nonsense! Thankfully the people working at LNER realise that they're not running a heritage railway to satisfy the nostalgic fantasies of a few enthusiasts.

As it happens, the original LNER owned 289 cars of 1938 tube stock. Which were painted... red (albeit a darker shade of red). So there you are. Historical precedent that LNER owned red carriages... :rolleyes:
 

richa2002

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Because an earlier company with a similar name didn't use red locomotives? What nonsense! Thankfully the people working at LNER realise that they're not running a heritage railway to satisfy the nostalgic fantasies of a few enthusiasts.

As it happens, the original LNER owned 289 cars of 1938 tube stock. Which were painted... red (albeit a darker shade of red). So there you are. Historical precedent that LNER owned red carriages... :rolleyes:
Calm down, dear!
 

FQTV

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I don't think the red is the worst livery to adorn the 225s or 125s by a long way - I think that accolade has to go to either the NXEC livery or the East Coast 'battleship' grey - which I always thought look hideous, completely drab and lacking in class. Looked like they'd let everything out in primer.

On the 125s, I'd also add in the original MML 'teal, orange and grey' which I never thought suited the HSTs, looked fine on the Turbostars though - I think it was the darker tinted glass which made it better on those.

At least the first 225 that East Coast rebranded, if not a few of the subsequent ones, were actually silver, and I thought that they looked rather smart. They definitely glinted.

The majority, however, were indeed grey.

I’m not sure if the distinction was that the silver one/s was/were painted, and the grey ones vinylled.
 

Rail Blues

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It doesn’t make sense to change the colour at the moment purely because most of the stock has been refurbished and much of the interiors are mostly red now too. You’d have to do a full new refurb again - a big waste of money.

THing is, I actually hate the livery that’s on the 225s and 125s at the moment - the diagonal swishes and fade between red and white make it look super tacky to me, and there’s something about the specific shade of red that I can’t put my finger on but it makes it look cheap - I think there’s a slightly pinky tinge to it in certain lights? It’s not even about it being a ‘Virgin’ red as I’d generally associate a more deep/scarlet shade with them. I’m not sure. But I do think it’s the worst livery the 91s & MKIVs have worn.

I live in hope that the next operator will choose something modern but classy, but I do appreciate how wasteful it would be to change now.

Good point. I'm not a fan of the vtec livery (virgin imo seem to suffer from a total lack of taste) especially the way the silver strip extends from the light clusters and along the cab. The exteriors look like an orangey red to me, like the colour of a slightly under ripe tomato. But I totally agree repainting, especially into some pseudo historic livery would be a total and utter waste of money and would please no one bar a tiny subset of enthusiasts who seem to confuse the East Coast mainline with the Severn Valley Railway.

Good point about the interior. The vtec first class seats look like something a 19 year old boyracer would put into his souped up Corsa. The contrast between that and a teak exterior would be something to behold.
 
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Just getting a bit fed up with all the daft 'you can't have a red livery' wibble...
That's the problem with choosing a heritage name though.
If they had have reverted back to East Coast, the problem would be solved, but they've played the history card, and that comes with, err, history.

Personally, I don't care what they paint them, but I can see why there's paint froth on this occasion.
 

87electric

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I know it's easy to get all misty-eyed over the Mallard. And whilst the speed record was a great achievement, the A4 Pacifics were by no means 'the latest technology at that time'. Everyone else was looking at diesel, gas turbine or electric locomotives.

The same year as Mallard's record-breaking run, the Germans built a prototype Class E19 electric loco, designed to operate at up to 140mph:

E19 12 in München (1967) [CC BY-SA 2.0 (https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0)], by Roger Wollstadt, from Wikimedia Commons

Whilst the Americans had already been using the GG1 class of 100mph electric locos for four years :

The Congressional Pennsylvania Railroad [Public domain], by Association of American Railroads - from Wikimedia Commons

Off topic I know. But I love those GG1 locos. The dogs wotsits.
 
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