Aldershot to Waterloo: why are Penalty Fares not issued for sitting in 1st on Std tickets?

gazthomas · 4 Jul 2018

Over the last couple of months I’ve been using first class on SWR from Aldershot to Waterloo. With no exception people with standard class tickets sit in first and then pay the difference on the rare occasion that their ticket is checked. How come penalty gates aren’t enforced?

RailUK Forums

yorkie · 4 Jul 2018

Who has checked the tickets?

If this route has commercial Guards, who are not authorised Penalty Fare collectors, then there's your answer!

If the tickets have been checked by revenue protection officers then that is surprising.

gazthomas · 4 Jul 2018

yorkie said:
Who has checked the tickets?

If this route has commercial Guards, who are not authorised Penalty Fare collectors, then there's your answer!

If the tickets have been checked by revenue protection officesr then that is surprising.

On all occasions it was the latter. I didn't realise they couldn't do this. Maybe that's why it is so prominent as there is little incentive to pay for first class until prompted

gazthomas · 4 Jul 2018

And on the 17.25 ex Waterloo to Alton the commercial guard simply ejected a child to standard class for not having a first class ticket

yorkie · 4 Jul 2018

There isn't much more they can do; a Guard's priorities are safety first, then timekeeping etc. Revenue collection is bottom of the list.

If someone is unable or unwilling to pay the fare, what else could the Guard realistically do?

An RPO would be equipped to issue a Penalty Fare or report the customer for prosecution.

gazthomas · 4 Jul 2018

yorkie said:
There isn't much more they can do; a Guard's priorities are safety first, then timekeeping etc. Revenue collection is bottom of the list.

If someone is unable or unwilling to pay the fare, what else could the Guard realistically do?

An RPO would be equipped to issue a Penalty Fare or report the customer for prosecution.

But they're collecting revenue from those who pay. But yes, I get your general point about safety, but why bother checking at all then?

yorkie · 4 Jul 2018

gazthomas said:
But they're collecting revenue from those who pay. But yes, I get your general point about safety, but why bother checking at all then?

The London area inner suburban workings have non-commercial Guards, so they don't check.

But for outer workings, where there is sufficient time between stations, the company must have decided it makes more sense to check tickets, because if there are times when the staff would not otherwise have any specific duties to perform, why not collect revenue?

gazthomas · 4 Jul 2018

yorkie said:
The London area inner suburban workings have non-commercial Guards, so they don't check.

But for outer workings, where there is sufficient time between stations, the company must have decided it makes more sense to check tickets, because if there are times when the staff would not otherwise have any specific duties to perform, why not collect revenue?

Fair enough

paddington · 5 Jul 2018

I spent April and May travelling the entire SWR network, from the London locals to the long-distances, and never once encountered a proper ticket check. The guards did nothing more than glance, and passengers without tickets who made up excuses (left it at home, booked it online and going to collect it at the next station, sure...) were let off. I usually have 4 or 5 tickets with me and have to fumble about to find the correct one for the current journey, but it seemed like just seeing a flash of orange was sufficient for many guards

Muzer · 5 Jul 2018

Indeed, I've accidentally shown just my Basingstoke season on a train that doesn't even stop at Basingstoke on more than one occasion and not had the guard notice (I semi-regularly travel down to Southampton in the evening peak, and so buy a Basingstoke to Southampton return which I use in combination with my season).

However, I definitely can't fault the frequency of ticket checks - I imagine that more than other things would put off the "casual" fare evader.

Brucey · 5 Jul 2018

I'm surprised you ever get your ticket checked on the 17:25 or 17:55, I certainly don't.

Maybe the guards target first class?

tom73 · 5 Jul 2018

Deleted

gazthomas · 5 Jul 2018

But as I keep moaning on about, they may as well sit in first class as there is no penalty if they do

221129 · 6 Jul 2018

gazthomas said:
But as I keep moaning on about, they may as well sit in first class as there is no penalty if they do

Except all of the times when there is.

Muzer · 6 Jul 2018

tom73 said:
Surely common sense to do so. In my experience on long distance routes, First Class is always checked first. Some of today's younger rail users have an exaggerated sense of entitlement. If Standard is full or even just a little crowded, go sit in First.

Younger? I've encountered people of all ages trying to try it on in first class.

221129 · 6 Jul 2018

Muzer said:
Younger? I've encountered people of all ages trying to try it on in first class.

I find it's more often the middle age business types.

Starmill · 6 Jul 2018

gazthomas said:
But as I keep moaning on about, they may as well sit in first class as there is no penalty if they do

You've asked your question and it has been answered several times now. If you view SWR's policy as being too customer-friendly and you dislike that, then why not take it up with them?

gazthomas · 6 Jul 2018

Starmill said:
You've asked your question and it has been answered several times now. If you view SWR's policy as being too customer-friendly and you dislike that, then why not take it up with them?

I shall. But I may ask one more time here if the fancy takes me

TUC · 7 Jul 2018

Well

yorkie said:
There isn't much more they can do; a Guard's priorities are safety first, then timekeeping etc. Revenue collection is bottom of the list.

If someone is unable or unwilling to pay the fare, what else could the Guard realistically do?

Although some guards manage to do a lot more than others.

boxy321 · 9 Jul 2018

221129 said:
I find it's more often the middle age business types.

Quite a few 'suits' think if they have the right garb on they will be allowed in 1st as a free upgrade. When challenged, they pay up, pretending they intended to do so to avoid embarrassment which is a hefty sum on VT!

swt_passenger · 9 Jul 2018

gazthomas said:
On all occasions it was the latter. I didn't realise they couldn't do this. Maybe that's why it is so prominent as there is little incentive to pay for first class until prompted

This doesn’t seem correct. “The latter”, as Yorkie suggested, being proper revenue protection staff.
Hence “former” would have been the way to describe the first possibility Yorkie raised, that they were commercial guards. Could you possibly clarify?

gazthomas · 10 Jul 2018

swt_passenger said:
This doesn’t seem correct. “The latter”, as Yorkie suggested, being proper revenue protection staff.
Hence “former” would have been the way to describe the first possibility Yorkie raised, that they were commercial guards. Could you possibly clarify?

Apologies, I meant the former. Needless to say, I've been known to get my left and right mixed up too!

swt_passenger · 10 Jul 2018

gazthomas said:
Apologies, I meant the former. Needless to say, I've been known to get my left and right mixed up too!

Thanks. That matches my normal observations now as well.

district · 10 Jul 2018

A lot of the non-commercial (not ticket trained and have no power to sell tickets) do check first class, but only ask standard passengers travelling in first to move as they have no powers to do anything else.

sammyg901 · 10 Jul 2018

Same on LNWR - 18.52 (peak train) - barriers were open at Euston in the peak which is just ridiculous.

There was a ticket check between Leighton Buzzard and Bletchley - one guy who had boarded at Euston bought a ticket onboard Leighton Buzzard-Bletchley which the guard happily sold. Another girl had an off peak ticket - all he did was tell her it wouldn't work the barriers at Bletchley for another 20mins - which of course were open.

So next time I feel like not to bother spending the extra 20 quid pp on the correct tickets as there aren't any concequences to not having them and getting "caught"

221129 · 10 Jul 2018

sammyg901 said:
Same on LNWR - 18.52 (peak train) - barriers were open at Euston in the peak which is just ridiculous.

There was a ticket check between Leighton Buzzard and Bletchley - one guy who had boarded at Euston bought a ticket onboard Leighton Buzzard-Bletchley which the guard happily sold. Another girl had an off peak ticket - all he did was tell her it wouldn't work the barriers at Bletchley for another 20mins - which of course were open.

So next time I feel like not to bother spending the extra 20 quid pp on the correct tickets as there aren't any concequences to not having them and getting "caught"

Apart from all the times that there are....

Aldershot to Waterloo: why are Penalty Fares not issued for sitting in 1st on Std tickets?

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