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Class 180: Can they run with one engine off?

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silverfoxcc

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Had a KX-Don return yesterday and got a good deal fare wise from Hull trains

First time on a 180 and ok apart from the hum of the engine underneath

Return train was the 17.08 and was surprised to see a GC unit roll up. Checked ticket and sure enough it was booked on the GC train ( thats the first surprise!) bit like BA booking me out to JFK on a 777 and back on a virgin 747)

Anyway just got on and enjoyed the quiet run back, as i thought i was on a HST, It wasn't until was got to KX that the plug door made me realise i wasn't on an HST.

Now for the question. can a 180 run without one engine ( I cant see why not) but it was noticeably quieter that the outward journey, hence the false HST thinking
 
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D9009Spotter

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I've not heard of Adelantes / Zephyrs running without one engine. However I have heard of Voyagers going around with one engine off to help reduce their carbon footprint. So its not undoable!
 

driver9000

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4 engined 180s was not uncommon, even 3 engines was possible (if sluggish) when I signed them. It was only done when the engine was isolated due a defect. As I remember anything less than 3 engines and the unit is a failure as the electrics can't crossfeed to power compressors etc.
 

Mugby

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The ride quality of a 180 is far superior to that of a Voyager, much better ambience too.

It just a shame they aren't so reliable.
 

rustbucket

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4 engined 180s on Hull Trains very common due to reliability issues and at times is a daily occurrence

3 engined ones normally declared a failure as cant hit the 125mph required for their slots on the ECML
 

Mugby

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Are any of the Hull Trains 180s ever turned out with a carriage missing, for maintenance?

Recently whilst travelling up and down the ECML, I've seen one flash past which seemed to short formed - or was it my imagination?
 

Clarence Yard

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Your imagination. Hull Trains has never operated any class 180 as a four car.
 

driver9000

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With modern, complex computer controlled trains it's not as simple as knocking a defective coach out and running it short. The TMS would need reprogramming to take into account the missing vehicle and in some cases a vital piece of equipment could be on that vehicle (such as an air compressor) rendering the unit useless without it.
 

mallard

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With modern, complex computer controlled trains it's not as simple as knocking a defective coach out and running it short.

While that's probably true of the 180s (and other Alstom units, noting the 458 splitting/joining debarcle), some modern units are a bit more flexible. CrossCountry 170s, for example, have on occasion been short-formed (and long-formed; basically swapping the middle carriages between units). I suspect they're among the last-built "flexible" units though.
 

Journeyman

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While that's probably true of the 180s (and other Alstom units, noting the 458 splitting/joining debarcle), some modern units are a bit more flexible. CrossCountry 170s, for example, have on occasion been short-formed (and long-formed; basically swapping the middle carriages between units). I suspect they're among the last-built "flexible" units though.

Almost all of the DMUs built from the eighties up to recently had entirely self-contained vehicles with regard to power, air conditioning, compressors etc - one of the advantages of there being an engine under every vehicle, so yes, there was some flexibility there. The Voyagers are an exception, though - after Virgin reformed their sets so all of them were five cars, they ended up with a pair of driving vehicles that couldn't be moved under their own power, as the compressors are located on intermediate vehicles only.
 

silverfoxcc

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Just to add, although it was a 6L at KX, ( pathing rather than performance) it cruised at 125 no problem ( acccording to my Waze app)
 

rich r

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Hull Trains 180s generally are quite pleasant and comfortable, and the staff are friendly and polite - though I did see some confusion once at KGX when the announcement that 'kerch C is the quiet kerch and there should be ner merbile phone use' there. I don't think the Londoners quite got the Hull accent ;)

Having said that, my trip back from KGX to Selby the other Friday afternoon wasn't so pleasant - people standing and aircon not working.
 

Mordac

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Hull Trains 180s generally are quite pleasant and comfortable, and the staff are friendly and polite - though I did see some confusion once at KGX when the announcement that 'kerch C is the quiet kerch and there should be ner merbile phone use' there. I don't think the Londoners quite got the Hull accent ;)

Having said that, my trip back from KGX to Selby the other Friday afternoon wasn't so pleasant - people standing and aircon not working.
Reminds of this:

"What's a crèche?" "It's an accident in Ballymena."
 

47271

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Does an engine out in a coach of this type mean no aircon in the affected vehicle? That's certainly been my experience on Scotrail 170s.
 

driver9000

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Does an engine out in a coach of this type mean no aircon in the affected vehicle? That's certainly been my experience on Scotrail 170s.

Not on a 180 as the adjacent vehicle will cross feed an electrical supply to the one running without an engine.
 

Prestige15

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Sometimes 1've heard the 180 having one engine on idle while on the move but class 185/220-222/800's can run with one engine off
 

Beatbox00

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4 engine running is very common with 180’s. 3 engine running is ok but can be a struggle to keep time. If the 50 and 54 car loose engines this will most likely lead to a failure as you’ll be down to only 1 compressor and unit will struggle to maintain air. GC Sent out many 180’s on 3 engines as long 50/54 cars are not the isolated ones.
 
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Hull Trains 180s generally are quite pleasant and comfortable, and the staff are friendly and polite - though I did see some confusion once at KGX when the announcement that 'kerch C is the quiet kerch and there should be ner merbile phone use' there. I don't think the Londoners quite got the Hull accent ;)

Having said that, my trip back from KGX to Selby the other Friday afternoon wasn't so pleasant - people standing and aircon not working.

on this farve carriage train , as opposed to a nane carriage LNER
 

Royston Vasey

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Hull Trains 180s generally are quite pleasant and comfortable, and the staff are friendly and polite - though I did see some confusion once at KGX when the announcement that 'kerch C is the quiet kerch and there should be ner merbile phone use' there. I don't think the Londoners quite got the Hull accent ;)

Having said that, my trip back from KGX to Selby the other Friday afternoon wasn't so pleasant - people standing and aircon not working.
Merbile phern surely? :D
 

Domh245

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I think it's far more likely that a vehicle has been locked out of use rather than removed.
 
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