"Govia Thameslink boss in first class row"

Megafuss · 10 Jul 2018

If you are a member of senior GTR staff, or in the PR team, you are going to have a very bad day

https://twitter.com/evfitzpatrick/status/1016716237517344768?s=09

Totally shocked to see #GoviaRailway Head of Operations - Mark Boon - telling all commuters to stay out of an EMPTY First Class carriage on a LATE & very packed train this morning - While he took up 2 seats IN there!

RailUK Forums

bramling · 10 Jul 2018

Megafuss said:
If you are a member of senior GTR staff, or in the PR team, you are going to have a very bad day

https://twitter.com/evfitzpatrick/status/1016716237517344768?s=09

Not good. Think that guy left LU under a bit of a cloud.

ComUtoR · 10 Jul 2018

16.
When travelling using rail staff travel facilities, priority should be given to public fare paying passengers. Whenever possible, cardholders should travel on lightly loaded trains. If a train is crowded, cardholders should allow public fare paying passengers to take seats. If eligible for and travelling in 1st Class on former Inter-City services, cardholders may be asked by on board staff to vacate their seat for a public fare paying passenger and they are expected to do so. However, if the cardholder is a retired employee or widow(er) (or their eligible family members), then they should not be asked to surrender their seat in these circumstances.

https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/rst/conditions-of-issue-and-use.html#s2

He should have given up his seat. I'm not sure if he gets any exemption or some special ticket.

tsr · 10 Jul 2018

This will obviously be a matter to be investigated - but it seems the tweeter has been kicking off about GTR for years, including vandalising property:
https://mobile.twitter.com/evfitzpatrick/status/748966042790232064

Naturally this could lend some bias to a photo of the Head of Network Operations sitting in First Class. (He could well have a pass to sit in there, and without saying too much, he is fairly knowledgeable on revenue operations.)

Obviously a photo does not give any idea of what was actually said, the behaviour of passengers, First Class loadings or anything else.

But this could just be a “GTR lanyard, let’s snap a photo and make something up” story.

If it isn’t, “something will be done”...

All Line Rover · 11 Jul 2018

BBC said:
A Govia Thameslink manager is under fire for telling passengers to stay out of a crowded train's first class cabin.

Emma FitzPatrick tweeted a picture of Mark Boon, head of network operations for Govia Thameslink Railway.

She said he told passengers not to occupy the "empty" first class section on a "very packed" train on Tuesday morning "while he took up two seats".

Govia Thameslink said all passengers needed a first-class ticket to travel in that section.

Ms FitzPatrick and Mr Boon were on a Southern service that arrived at London Victoria shortly before midday on Tuesday.

Mr Boon sat at a table in first class and placed his bag on the empty seat next to him, telling passengers without first class tickets they would need to remain in the standard class section.

Ms Fitzpatrick added: "I still can't believe it! He even handed his business card out to the people that he was turning away!"

A spokesperson for Govia Thameslink Railway, which operates Southern services, said: "Passengers need a first class ticket to travel in first class and there were other people with first class tickets in this compartment.

"This was an 11am off-peak service running just six minutes late and, while the front coaches were busy, there were seats and space in the rear coaches, as Mr Boon explained."

Ms FitzPatrick's tweets sparked a storm of criticism on social media, with some questioning whether Mr Boon had the authority to prevent standard ticket holders from using the first class compartment.

...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44799659

Govia's comments seem reasonable, although if Mr Boon was travelling alone, I'm not sure why he was occupying two seats. I'm also not sure why non-retired railway management 'deserve' first class travel privileges. Surely, if they are running their TOCs capably, standard class travel should be acceptable, with first class offering nothing more than some added luxury? Though if I were Mr Boon, even if the train was not packed, I'd be embarrassed that those seats are described as "first class".

I can still give Mr Boon some credit. At least he wasn't hiding his name badge!* The number of rail staff who develop an identity crisis the moment it becomes apparent that a passenger / customer may not be entirely satisfied with their performance...

*Pedant note: The lanyard is the string to which the name badge is attached.

Clip · 11 Jul 2018

Its called a perk of the job and happens in all walks of life. i wouldnt get to uptight about him being allowed to sit there

bramling · 11 Jul 2018

All Line Rover said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44799659

Govia's comments seem reasonable, although if Mr Boon was travelling alone, I'm not sure why he was occupying two seats. I'm also not sure why non-retired railway management 'deserve' first class travel privileges. Surely, if they are running their TOCs capably, standard class travel should be acceptable, with first class offering nothing more than some added luxury? Though if I were Mr Boon, even if the train was not packed, I'd be embarrased that those seats are described as "first class".

I think the issue is not so much the rights or wrongs of him being in first class, but more the sheer arrogance of him being sprawled out across two seats whilst people are standing - especially considering the current shambles. Having said that, on GN it is quite common to see groups of drivers doing the same, and being loud and rowdy at the same time. Says it all about GTR really - they can’t even rely on one of their (relatively) senior managers to display a bit of dignity when travelling.

yorkie · 11 Jul 2018

It is true there will be trains where people wedge into one end of the train while the other end has spare seats, it is also true that on routes with a frequent service people may wedge into a busy train with a quiet train just behind calling at the same places (but it may not be communicated to passengers that there is a train just behind and that it has plenty of spare capacity).

Jonfun · 11 Jul 2018

I can't help but think folk who'd paid full whack for a first class ticket would be fairly annoyed to see a railway manager sat there *not* challenging standard class passengers dodging their fares! Damned if you do, damned if you dont kind of thing.

3141 · 11 Jul 2018

Govia have made a mess of things.

Except that there are many reasons why the timetable change has gone badly, and they are by no means all Govia's fault.

Still a lot of people now love to hate them, so anything like this incident is ammunition for a new onslaught. But it is reported that

1) the train was six minutes late. Not massive, and not a justification for sitting in first class when you have a standard class ticket.
2) though the front of the train was crowded, there were seats towards the rear. Again, not a justification for thinking you've a right to sit in first class.
3) we've had threads on here about people using more than one seat. Not uncommon as any regular traveller will know. Did Mark Boon prevent another first class ticket-holder from sitting down?

It's a lovely opportunity for an outburst of emotionalism, and Mark Boon should have been a lot more circumspect in all the circumstances, but it seems he was dead right.

bramling · 11 Jul 2018

It may well do some mild damage to Boon’s career prospects though, as anyone searching the name on a search engine is now bound to come across the story, complete with the picture of him sitting there like a smug plum. At best it demonstrates clumsy handling of a routine situation.

Michael.Y · 11 Jul 2018

On a full and standing train, staff travelling pass shouldn't be occupying seats regardless of class. The First Class section in question isn't worth the antimacassars it's printed on.... Given the numerous problems Govia/Southern/TL/GN are having at the moment, the optics here are terrible; he should be ashamed.

jon0844 · 11 Jul 2018

Staff are often upgraded to first class so they can sit when standard is full. If someone needs the first class seat then they stand.

As perks go it isn't great when you must give up a seat for someone else. As such you might stand more often than others because everyone has priority over you!

Taunton · 11 Jul 2018

If any senior manager of a mainstream customer-facing business behaved like this, and made arrogant and aggressive comments in this way (including 'go and push back through 12 packed cars') to their customers, the Chairman of the business would have him clearing his desk before the end of the day.

Cricketer8for9 · 11 Jul 2018

It looks like a Southern train not a Thameslink one.

Via Bank · 11 Jul 2018

I’m just astonished how no-one in GTR’s press office (or indeed their management) can see how this situation might possibly have bad optics - a boss sat in first class with standing passengers in Standard, and occupying two seats to boot.

CeeJ · 11 Jul 2018

Imagine actually wanting to advertise the fact you're in charge of Govia's (lack of) operations...

Bishopstone · 11 Jul 2018

On the one hand - disastrous, tone deaf PR.

On the other hand, if GTR expect their front line staff to enforce First Class, then I give this senior guy some credit for being consistent and doing likewise.

(Whether there should be First Class on these services, and whether railway staff and managers should be entitled to use it are separate questions, and not directly relevant.)

bramling · 11 Jul 2018

CeeJ said:
Imagine actually wanting to advertise the fact you're in charge of Govia's (lack of) operations...

Had he quietly sat there without making an example of himself then he wouldn’t now be in the unfortunate position of having his picture all round the media. One can’t help but wonder if he would have been so readily conspicuous if there was a major problem and the on-board staff needed assistance?

All-in-all it’s a bit of a non-story that provides a bit of amusement at the expense of someone who may now, hopefully, be a little wiser and more self-aware than he was this time last week. But it does kind of sum up GTR quite well just at them moment - arrogant and detached from reality.

Ploughman · 11 Jul 2018

I suppose down rating 1st to Standard was not thought about.

All Line Rover · 11 Jul 2018

Bishopstone said:
if GTR expect their front line staff to enforce First Class, then I give this senior guy some credit for being consistent and doing likewise.

Govia's upper management couldn't care less about first class enforcement. On trains with first class accommodation on any of their TOCs, on-board ticket inspections don't take place a majority of the time. On DOO services, on-board ticket inspections seem unheard of. This isn't a Govia-specific problem - ticket inspections are no better on London Northwestern Railway compared to London Midland even though Abellio is now (largely) in charge. But FirstGroup (Great Western Railway, TransPennine Express and ex. First Capital Connect), Arriva CrossCountry and Virgin are/were notably more thorough at ticket inspections, particularly in first class. Praising Mr Boon for "protecting" first class ticket holders appears, in this context, rich. It seems the only person Mr Boon is interested in protecting is himself.

AngusH · 11 Jul 2018

As a standard class passenger (mostly) I'd prefer staff to sit in first class if possible, it leaves another standard seat!

This guy may have had a point, but as ever, it depends on both underlying issue and presentation.
His presentation was very poor.

jrh2254 · 11 Jul 2018

I think the problem is that in the rail Industry there are no consequences for this type of behaviour by employees, so it just continues, whereas in normal business situations the implications for an employee would be terminal.

farleigh · 11 Jul 2018

But what would he be disciplined for?

bramling · 11 Jul 2018

farleigh said:
But what would he be disciplined for?

Not much, unless he’s breached some kind of policy regarding his travel privileges - which he probably hasn’t.

If those above him really disapprove then he’ll just get snubbed for a bit - perhaps moved to a dead-end role or to a location inconvenient to him.

The whole thing wouldn’t have blown up if GTR weren’t already in a mess.

Bletchleyite · 11 Jul 2018

Ploughman said:
I suppose down rating 1st to Standard was not thought about.

Some TOCs do do this quite readily (most notably LM - I haven't used LNR enough times to see if this is the same) - but on more overcrowded TOCs to do it kind of negates the point - it exists precisely for those who wish to pay for a less crowded environment, so to keep declassifying will mean people just stop paying extra.

47271 · 11 Jul 2018

I don't know what the fuss is about.

It's exactly what you'd expect the 'Head of Network Operations' for GTR, someone who could legitimately be nominated to be the UK's most incompetent manager if such an award existed, to do.

AlterEgo · 11 Jul 2018

Someone using a perk of their employment in the correct manner and upholding the rules for other passengers is certainly not the stuff of disciplinaries.

bramling · 11 Jul 2018

AlterEgo said:
Someone using a perk of their employment in the correct manner and upholding the rules for other passengers is certainly not the stuff of disciplinaries.

Agreed. It’s more something which raises questions about his judgement. If you’re going to spread out and relax over two seats in first class and then make a bit of a scene, don’t plaster your name and position for all to see. Most people would readily realise this, Mr Boon evidently didn’t - hence he’s now plastered across the media and being made to look silly. As you say, people don’t really get disciplined for that.

AlterEgo · 11 Jul 2018

bramling said:
Agreed. It’s more something which raises questions about his judgement. If you’re going to spread out and relax over two seats in first class, don’t plaster your name and position for all to see. Most people would readily realise this, Mr Boon evidently didn’t - hence he’s now plastered across the media and being made to look silly. As you say, people don’t really get disciplined for that.

It’s very bad PR. However nothing surprises me when it comes to GTR and naivety.

"Govia Thameslink boss in first class row"

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