Barry Scrapyard - Steam Locomotive Graveyard.

Envoy · 15 Jul 2018

An interesting article has appeared on Media Wales about the Barry Scrapyard.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/locomotives-graveyard-hundreds-old-trains-14908147

A staggering number of steam engines were scrapped in that first wave of modernisation, but a peculiar quirk of contracts meant that most of the locomotives which arrived in Woodham’s in Barry were shunted into sidings, as the yard’s moniker “locomotives’ graveyard” was born.

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Flying Phil · 15 Jul 2018

I went round Barry about three times in the late 60's and it was such a sad place then - It is amazing that so many locomotives were eventually saved thanks to Dai Woodham.

Peter Mugridge · 15 Jul 2018

Here are some Barry Hulk photos of mine from the final year or two of the yard. Hardly anything left on site at that point.

BrunswickGreen · 15 Jul 2018

A weekend of extremes on the 8th April 1969 had a nostalgic walk down all the lines of steam and diesel locos at Barry. Biggest surprise was to find 71000 minus tender. Intrigued by the names of preservation groups painted on so many locos. Then on the 9th drove over to Filton to see the first flight of Concorde, absolutely amazing. Bummer no camera.

Flying Phil · 15 Jul 2018

It was difficult to get good pictures at Barry when it was full but here are the two Kings in 1964.

GusB · 16 Jul 2018

That was a really good read - thank you for posting. Although I'm not a big fan of steam, I recall seeing photographs and old film clips of the rows of locos at Woodhams, and it always made me feel quite sad. I hadn't realised quite how many were saved:

The facts of Woodham’s history are startling. Of the 297 withdrawn British steam locomotives that were sent to the yard, 213 were rescued for the developing railway preservation movement.

That's just over 74% of the locos saved that were sent for scrapping - quite a remarkable figure.

ArchieWoodbine · 16 Jul 2018

GusB said:
That was a really good read - thank you for posting. Although I'm not a big fan of steam, I recall seeing photographs and old film clips of the rows of locos at Woodhams, and it always made me feel quite sad. I hadn't realised quite how many were saved:

That's just over 74% of the locos saved that were sent for scrapping - quite a remarkable figure.

Quite. Without the Barry scrapyard, the preservation movement in the UK would have certainly never reached the levels it is now. Realistically, we'd still have the Bluebell and its pre-grouping stock; a dozen or so high-profile locomotives; narrow-guauge and perhaps some privately bought industrial locos, but precious little besides that.

Merthyr Imp · 16 Jul 2018

Here are the two photos I took on 4th August 1968:

'Duke of Gloucester' and 'Manston'

Cowley · 17 Jul 2018

I think he did cut up a couple of steam locos in quite late on (maybe a 9F and something else in the late 1970s?), partly to ‘encourage’ some of the groups to pay and remove the locomotives that had been ‘reserved’ without any further action happening.
He did so much for the preservation movement though. My friends dad was involved in rescuing Dumbelton Hall and said he was very patient and helpful considering there were always enthusiasts around the yard.

geoffk · 17 Jul 2018

I and many others wandered round the yard in the late 1960s and 70s. Wouldn't be allowed now though, with security fences everywhere. 9F 92085, GWR prairie tank 4156 and the two North British diesels - D601 and D6122 - were scrapped in 1980. I was told that this was because the supply of wagons for breaking had dried up, but a new supply of wagons meant a reprieve for the remaining steam locos.

MichaelWells · 17 Jul 2018

When the North Norfolk Railway was first looking for engines, they went to Barry to see what was there. With a lack of ex LNER engines (61264 being the only one to go there) they proclaimed, "Nothing worth having" and now there are 2 ex Barry engines resident on the line, 76084 and 53809

Welly · 17 Jul 2018

I remember visiting Woodham's around 1980 when I was about 10. My Dad and I went on a chartered DMU all the way to Barry from Lincoln, it was organised by a local railway enthusiast group

EbbwJunction1 · 19 Jul 2018

I do get frustrated sometimes when Dai Woodham is portrayed as some kind of a "saint who saved Britain's steam locomotives", because it's not really the case.

The main reason why the locos lasted so long is that he had several huge contracts to break up thousands of wagons at the same time as having 300+ locos on site. The wagons were easier to break up and more lucrative, so that's what he concentrated on. At the same time, he stripped all the locos of their valuable metals and made lots of money from that, leaving the locos as hulks.

It's true that he helped the preservation movement by not breaking up the locos sooner, but it wasn't just because he wanted to save steam - he just had better things to do at the time. I don't know how much he charged to buy a loco, but I'm guessing they weren't cheap. I think I read somewhere that "the bigger the loco, the more expensive it was". I did see some prices at the time, but at this distance I can't remember what they were.

Yes, he helped, but the single handed saviour? No - and he said as much himself, of course.

Flying Phil · 19 Jul 2018

Whilst EbbwJunction makes some valid points, there were quite a few other scrapyards taking in steam locomotives and wagons - but they all cut them up very quickly. I suspect that Dai sold locomotives at not a lot more than he paid, and yes, he had sold/scrapped quite a lot of the copper/non ferrous parts. It was also a lot more work/hassle selling locomotives to cash strapped preservation groups - and preventing "parts borrowing/stealing(!)...
..so yes -thankfully - he did save the majority of Britain's preserved steam locomotives.

ian1944 · 25 Jul 2018

A quick question - who has done more for the health of Britain's railways, Dai Woodham or Chris Grayling?

Bedpan · 29 Jul 2018

EbbwJunction1 said:
I don't know how much he charged to buy a loco, but I'm guessing they weren't cheap. I think I read somewhere that "the bigger the loco, the more expensive it was".

I thought he sold the locos at the scrap metal rate, so in that respect he saved himself having the cost of having to cut them up. (But as said elsewhere the sale of the engines to the preservation movement posed other problems to him). So it goes without saying that the bigger the loco, the heavier it was and so the more expensive it was.

I expect that the element of labour saving could have been one of the reasons why he concentrated on cutting up wagons which nobody would want to buy intact. But when you think that Cashmores, down the road in Newport, also had a large collection of steam locos and none of them survived....

trebor79 · 29 Jul 2018

I have a documentary on VHS somewhere where he says in an interview that he had to pay a fee to BR for every hulk he sold. When he bought them the contract stated they were to be scrapped. Something like that anyway.
Also confirmed it was easier, quicker and cheaper to cut the wagons and he never intended to save any logos, just never got round to the majority of them.

Neil Urquhart · 3 Aug 2018

My understanding, from what I've read, is that Dai Woodham sold the locos on the basis of their scrap value at the time of sale(plus the fee to BRB). If that's the case, then hats off to him for not asking for larger sums of money for them (he'd have made a bit more because he didn't have to pay for them to be cut). There's at least one yard in Scotland (Kirkcaldy IIRC) that has (or had until recently) some industrial tank locos which have sat there for decades, apparently the asking price is astronomical so they continue to sit and rust. At least Woodham placed a realistic value on things which lead to then being saved.

martian boy · 5 Aug 2018

EbbwJunction1 said:
I do get frustrated sometimes when Dai Woodham is portrayed as some kind of a "saint who saved Britain's steam locomotives", because it's not really the case.

The main reason why the locos lasted so long is that he had several huge contracts to break up thousands of wagons at the same time as having 300+ locos on site. The wagons were easier to break up and more lucrative, so that's what he concentrated on. At the same time, he stripped all the locos of their valuable metals and made lots of money from that, leaving the locos as hulks.

It's true that he helped the preservation movement by not breaking up the locos sooner, but it wasn't just because he wanted to save steam - he just had better things to do at the time. I don't know how much he charged to buy a loco, but I'm guessing they weren't cheap. I think I read somewhere that "the bigger the loco, the more expensive it was". I did see some prices at the time, but at this distance I can't remember what they were.

Yes, he helped, but the single handed saviour? No - and he said as much himself, of course.

There was an interview with Dai Woodham in one of the railway magazines around 35 years ago, I think it may have been in Steam Railway (?). In one part, he seemed to have regretted leaving them so long. One of the problems he mentioned, was theft. On a number of occasions, the police were knocking on his door during the early hours to say they had caught somebody stealing from the yard. One or two of these culprits allegedly belonged to some of the preservation groups. He also said that some of the preservation groups were far from saints themselves.

Another thing he commented on, was the time it took some of the preservation groups to move the locomotive they wanted, years often being the timescale. Other groups would enquire about a locomotive, have a reservation on it, then never to be heard of again.

I think it was in the same interview he specifically stated, if it was not for wagons being scrapped, the locomotives would have gone years ago.

He did not keep them for the preservation groups. He had little interest in them.

EbbwJunction1 · 5 Aug 2018

We have to remember that Dai Woodham was a businessman first and last, and he only kept the locos because he had the large wagon breaking contracts which were easier to fulfill.

One of the yards referred to by Flying Phil above was Cashmores in Newport. I used to go past there regularly as a kid in the 1960's (I was never allowed in!) and you could see a lot of what was happening from the 'Octopus Bridge' which was next door to the yard. My memory is that most of the locos were in and scrapped very quickly; they certainly didn't have the large storage yard that Woodham's did in Barry.

Another major part of their business was ship breaking, and they scrapped some of the iconic Royal and Merchant Navy ships of the Twentieth Century, but this work was drying up by the 1970s.

My view has always been that he helped the preservation movement because it was good business, not because he was committed to preservation. I'm not criticizing him for that, because I do appreciate what happened, but I think that we have to be realistic about why he did what he did.

Peter Mugridge · 5 Aug 2018

martian boy said:
There was an interview with Dai Woodham in one of the railway magazines around 35 years ago, I think it may have been in Steam Railway (?).

Yes, it was in Steam Railway.

Steam loco · 6 Sep 2018

I'm glad so many where saved we need to restore the remaining locomotives

Flying Phil · 6 Sep 2018

Steam loco said:
I'm glad so many where saved we need to restore the remaining locomotives

It said earlier that 213 had been saved from Barry and I suspect the majority have now been restored to running order (at least once) by now. I'm sure somebody will give the exact number but there are still a few that have had little work done on them or have been dismantled and no further. Some are also the basis of newbuild/recreations.

Steam loco · 7 Sep 2018

We do need to face the fact that not all will steam again

Flying Phil · 7 Sep 2018

Steam loco said:
We do need to face the fact that not all will steam again

According to Wiki there are about 21 - 25 unrestored steam locomotives saved from Barry - some "scrapped" are being used in new builds. The rest are Operational, under overhaul or being restored. Given that it is £500,000 to £800,000 for a small totally New Build and £3M for a large new build I expect that even the unrestored locomotives will get saved - there are over 100 preserved lines that use steam locomotives in addition to main line use.

Steam loco · 7 Sep 2018

Plus let's face it the steam movement had done a lot better than expected with out Barry prereved steam would be different

Robin Edwards · 8 Sep 2018

Fair to say that the plethora of preserved lines in UK would be far poorer without the number of locomotives, mainly GWR and SR but also some LMS & Standard classes, that went to Woodhams rather than somewhere else.
I don't have any numbers to quote but from the 200+ saved, only a handful have been recycled into other locomotives either as spares or doners to rebuilds.
In 1980 two steam engines were cut at Barry, GWR pannier 4156 and 9F 92085 although some parts of the latter I know still exist on other locomotives that are running.
For me, the greatest shame is that D6122 and D601 Ark Royal were not saved. They too were scrapped in 1980.

pdeaves · 8 Sep 2018

Robin Edwards said:
For me, the greatest shame is that D6122 and D601 Ark Royal were not saved.

Yes, if only we could have 'now' preservation movement/ideas of what's important to save, etc. with 'then' availability of locos.

Steam loco · 12 Sep 2018

It's a shame those two were cut up but the waggons dried up so to keep people in business that cut them up unfortunately should have just cut the diesels up

Roger100 · 15 Sep 2018

Robin Edwards said:
Fair to say that the plethora of preserved lines in UK would be far poorer without the number of locomotives, mainly GWR and SR but also some LMS & Standard classes, that went to Woodhams rather than somewhere else.
I don't have any numbers to quote but from the 200+ saved, only a handful have been recycled into other locomotives either as spares or doners to rebuilds.
In 1980 two steam engines were cut at Barry, GWR pannier 4156 and 9F 92085 although some parts of the latter I know still exist on other locomotives that are running.
For me, the greatest shame is that D6122 and D601 Ark Royal were not saved. They too were scrapped in 1980.

Barry Scrapyard - Steam Locomotive Graveyard.

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